Argentina

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Lord Jim
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Re: Argentina

Post by Lord Jim »

Four OPVs of this size in three years is impressive.

TheLoneRanger
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Re: Argentina

Post by TheLoneRanger »

Team from Argentina evaluated JF-17 in Chengdu

http://alert5.com/2022/05/22/team-from- ... n-chengdu/

https://dangdai.com.ar/2022/05/20/la-em ... n-militar/

JF17 Block IIIs with CM400's and PL15E's would significantly upgrade Argentina's airpower - assuming of course they can find the cash to pay for them. Also JF17's come with a whole suite of smart SOW's aswell. Probably the most unrestricted supply of weapons they can get compared to USA/Europe/EU where the UK has some influence ...

Lord Jim
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Re: Argentina

Post by Lord Jim »

I am sure China will find something it is willing to take as collateral for any loan to buy a number of these jets. Argentina will most likely come to regret any such arrangement later on though.
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Scimitar54
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Re: Argentina

Post by Scimitar54 »

Fishing and Mineral Rights around The “Malvinas” perhaps ? I think that would be another justification for “a larger RN” (and possibly a larger RAF presence at Mount Pleasant as well). :mrgreen:
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Lord Jim
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Re: Argentina

Post by Lord Jim »

We could really do with one or more P-8s down their with UAS support but we haven't got enough to do that have we.
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Scimitar54
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Re: Argentina

Post by Scimitar54 »

Another Nine required then!

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Argentina

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Scimitar54 wrote: 23 May 2022, 02:36 Fishing and Mineral Rights around The “Malvinas” perhaps ?
@Scimitar got there first.. let me try to do one better:

What happened to those "rich" noodle pods that were supposedly sitting in the deep ocean canyons around the Falklands... and we could hoover them up and get 'near pure' metal(s) even before melting??
- - a little bit of propaganda, may be? Before the oil & gas had been surveyed
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Scimitar54
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Re: Argentina

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I have seen, for some time a need to establish a deterrent presence in the South Atlantic (Not to deter Argentina) but rather to dissuade the PRC from spreading it”s tentacles around “Good Hope” and “Horn” and into the Atlantic. Do those with blinkers still think that we do not need a much larger RN ? Or do they want to wait until there is an Oriental presence in the North Atlantic ? I suggest that if we wait until then, it will already be TOO LATE. :mrgreen:
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Re: Argentina

Post by wargame_insomniac »

Lord Jim wrote: 23 May 2022, 23:19 We could really do with one or more P-8s down their with UAS support but we haven't got enough to do that have we.
How many aircraft would be required if needed 24hour coverage?
Three? Four?

The problem at the moment is that we can't spare any aircraft from patrolling UK waters and combating Russian subs in GIUK Gap. So I think we are back into the realms if needing additional crew availability plus higher defence spending before we can purchase additional P8's.

wargame_insomniac
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Re: Argentina

Post by wargame_insomniac »

Scimitar54 wrote: 24 May 2022, 17:48 I have seen, for some time a need to establish a deterrent presence in the South Atlantic (Not to deter Argentina) but rather to dissuade the PRC from spreading it”s tentacles around “Good Hope” and “Horn” and into the Atlantic. Do those with blinkers still think that we do not need a much larger RN ? Or do they want to wait until there is an Oriental presence in the North Atlantic ? I suggest that if we wait until then, it will already be TOO LATE. :mrgreen:
For RN, having an OPV as the Falklands Guardship was fair enough during the decades of peace. But in todays security situation we need a Frigate instead. I hope one if the first T31's is earmarked for that role.

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Re: Argentina

Post by Scimitar54 »

Not one or the other, but BOTH, as it was and still should be, representing the absolute minimum. :mrgreen:

Lord Jim
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Re: Argentina

Post by Lord Jim »

If there was ever a place the UK established a shore based AShM capability it should be the Falklands! Of course we would also need the detection capability to utilise such a system effective range as well.

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Re: Argentina

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Lord Jim wrote: 26 May 2022, 01:58 If there was ever a place the UK established a shore based AShM capability it should be the Falklands! Of course we would also need the detection capability to utilise such a system effective range as well.
Given the area wouldn’t it be better to deploy a couple of Wildcats with some armed UAVs?

My personal view is that the RN needs to build and deploy a vessel with a double hangar (like HMS Endurance did) capable of deploying two Wildcats - the more the mobile the better.
”We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow." - Lord Palmerston

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Tempest414
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Re: Argentina

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Lord Jim wrote: 26 May 2022, 01:58 If there was ever a place the UK established a shore based AShM capability it should be the Falklands! Of course we would also need the detection capability to utilise such a system effective range as well.
What is needed is a land based type 45 system with 100 VLS for 50 x Aster 30 , 64 x CAMM-ER and 34 Tomahawk Blk V sited on Mount Adam on West Falklands
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Scimitar54
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Re: Argentina

Post by Scimitar54 »

Repulse Wrote:-
My personal view is that the RN needs to build and deploy a vessel with a double hangar (like HMS Endurance did) capable of deploying two Wildcats - the more the mobile the better.

Sounds like a job for a T22 Frigate ! :lol:

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Re: Argentina

Post by Timmymagic »

Better luck next time Argentina...

The UK's embargo has been spectacually successful, Argentina has zero combat capable aircraft at present...and as more time goes by and it becomes evident they don't need them the less likely they are to purchase...

I think you can safely put a JF-17 purchase in the 'very unlikely to happen' pile along with any other proposed sale over the last 2 decades..

https://www.airdatanews.com/argentine-n ... dard-jets/

abc123
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Re: Argentina

Post by abc123 »

So, will the UK allow sale of Danish F-16 to Argentina?
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…

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Tempest414
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Re: Argentina

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abc123 wrote: 16 Aug 2023, 07:11 So, will the UK allow sale of Danish F-16 to Argentina?
We will have no choice if the US say so I bet we are now wishing we let the FA-50 offer run

the question is what weapons package we can knock them down to

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mrclark303
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Re: Argentina

Post by mrclark303 »

Tempest414 wrote: 16 Aug 2023, 07:38
abc123 wrote: 16 Aug 2023, 07:11 So, will the UK allow sale of Danish F-16 to Argentina?
We will have no choice if the US say so I bet we are now wishing we let the FA-50 offer run

the question is what weapons package we can knock them down to
I don't believe a comparatively small force of F16's represents a significant threat to the Falklands.

The Argentine armed forces is absolutely gutted and obsolete in its entirety, it's not in any position to threaten the sovereignty of the Falklands Islands.

What would a possible SF type raid and an isolated air strike possibly accomplish, apart from pulling the pin on Argentina's economy, as the backlash would be catastrophic.

inch
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Re: Argentina

Post by inch »

Does this show what the US really thinks of the UK ?
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Tempest414
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Re: Argentina

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inch wrote: 16 Aug 2023, 10:36 Does this show what the US really thinks of the UK ?
No this is in the wider game of chess with China the US allowing them to have older F-16's blocks China offering JF-17 however what the West should be doing is offering to pay 60% on building hospitals and schools and the like

At this time we say no to everything and China say we can do this or that if you give us this

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Tempest414
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Re: Argentina

Post by Tempest414 »

mrclark303 wrote: 16 Aug 2023, 10:32
Tempest414 wrote: 16 Aug 2023, 07:38
abc123 wrote: 16 Aug 2023, 07:11 So, will the UK allow sale of Danish F-16 to Argentina?
We will have no choice if the US say so I bet we are now wishing we let the FA-50 offer run

the question is what weapons package we can knock them down to
I don't believe a comparatively small force of F16's represents a significant threat to the Falklands.

The Argentine armed forces is absolutely gutted and obsolete in its entirety, it's not in any position to threaten the sovereignty of the Falklands Islands.

What would a possible SF type raid and an isolated air strike possibly accomplish, apart from pulling the pin on Argentina's economy, as the backlash would be catastrophic.
Quite right but had we let the FA-50 deal run they may have got a lesser bit of kit more of a A-4 replacement
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abc123
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Re: Argentina

Post by abc123 »

Tempest414 wrote: 16 Aug 2023, 07:38
abc123 wrote: 16 Aug 2023, 07:11 So, will the UK allow sale of Danish F-16 to Argentina?
We will have no choice if the US say so I bet we are now wishing we let the FA-50 offer run

the question is what weapons package we can knock them down to
I wonder, does the anybody else build damn ejecing seats? Or just Martin Baker? ( outside of Russia/China )
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…

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Tempest414
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Re: Argentina

Post by Tempest414 »

abc123 wrote: 16 Aug 2023, 12:13
Tempest414 wrote: 16 Aug 2023, 07:38
abc123 wrote: 16 Aug 2023, 07:11 So, will the UK allow sale of Danish F-16 to Argentina?
We will have no choice if the US say so I bet we are now wishing we let the FA-50 offer run

the question is what weapons package we can knock them down to
I wonder, does the anybody else build damn ejecing seats? Or just Martin Baker? ( outside of Russia/China )
You can go elsewhere but if you want the best its MB
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SW1
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Re: Argentina

Post by SW1 »

abc123 wrote: 16 Aug 2023, 12:13
Tempest414 wrote: 16 Aug 2023, 07:38
abc123 wrote: 16 Aug 2023, 07:11 So, will the UK allow sale of Danish F-16 to Argentina?
We will have no choice if the US say so I bet we are now wishing we let the FA-50 offer run

the question is what weapons package we can knock them down to
I wonder, does the anybody else build damn ejecing seats? Or just Martin Baker? ( outside of Russia/China )

Collins aerospace do the aces ejector seat in the US.

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