Boeing P-8A Poseidon (MRA Mk.1) (RAF)

Contains threads on Royal Air Force equipment of the past, present and future.
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Ianmb17
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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (Future Maritime Reconnaissance Aircraft) (RAF)

Post by Ianmb17 »

It's not the colour this was a cost saving with Airseeker (it is in USAF colours with Raf writing)
A programme of continual upgrades has kept the American RC-135 fleet modern and three British aircraft will continue to benefit from the upgrade programme. British Rivet Joints will operate as part of a joint pool with the USAF and as a result, will be upgraded and maintained to the same standard as the American aircraft.

So are our P8s part of USAF pool

downsizer
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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (Future Maritime Reconnaissance Aircraft) (RAF)

Post by downsizer »

Ianmb17 wrote: So are our P8s part of USAF pool
Doubt it mate, USAF haven't got any P8s. :lol: :geek:

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Ianmb17
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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (Future Maritime Reconnaissance Aircraft) (RAF)

Post by Ianmb17 »

My mistake I meant Navy in same respect as as Airseeker to USAF

seaspear
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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (Future Maritime Reconnaissance Aircraft) (RAF)

Post by seaspear »

Another name is Aeron the Welsh god of war

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (Future Maritime Reconnaissance Aircraft) (RAF)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Sounds too diminutive... like a Proton, subatomic particle that has a rest mass of 1.67262 × 10 −27 [to the power of, that last operator]
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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (Future Maritime Reconnaissance Aircraft) (RAF)

Post by marktigger »

whats wrong with calling it Poseidon?

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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (Future Maritime Reconnaissance Aircraft) (RAF)

Post by seaspear »

Perhaps being trivial on names but why follow classics in Roman and Greek gods when Celtic and Pictish ones can be used even ancient Welsh

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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (Future Maritime Patrol Aircraft) (RAF)

Post by Ron5 »

Why would the US Navy name a US aircraft after a Welsh god? SMH.

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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (Future Maritime Patrol Aircraft) (RAF)

Post by S M H »

Why should we rename the aircraft the Hercules as been in R.A.F service unaltered . I would be more concerned with the integration of Stingray I was on board the recovery launch for the instumented drill test run in Gibraltar in 1983,A Sub used as the test target! With an inflation ring replacing the charges. The manufactures personnel on board to checked the weapon after recovery. Stated it was compatible with the Mk 44 & MK 46. Norway purchased Stingray for there P 3s little has become public of there integration of Stingray. The fact that the P 8a has the upgraded system that was fitted to the MRA 4 Nimrod may make the integration less costly nightmare.The other operational need to be addressed is our lack of U.K. air to air boom refuelling. Considering the other aircraft we have that could benefit from it.

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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (Future Maritime Patrol Aircraft) (RAF)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

S M H wrote: Stated it was compatible with the Mk 44 & MK 46. Norway purchased Stingray for there P 3s little has become public of there integration of Stingray. The fact that the P 8a has the upgraded system that was fitted to the MRA 4 Nimrod may make the integration less costly nightmare
All along I have been asking "where is the shed the main integrator - Boeing - put all the goodies into" ... before the non-performing airframes themselves were shredded.
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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (Future Maritime Patrol Aircraft) (RAF)

Post by arfah »

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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (Future Maritime Patrol Aircraft) (RAF)

Post by Jdam »

Whats this? not just words but actions too :shock:

All joking aside its nice to see we are moving this forward, but the speed of this casts some doubts on uk weapon integration at the start of service

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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (Future Maritime Patrol Aircraft) (RAF)

Post by jimthelad »

3+6+3 first airframes leased, 9 total buy! Airframe 1 has been flying in US for last 4 months with an all UK crew, 2 and 3 were shared but Mr Putin seems to have forced the issue. The problem is we dont have the ramp space support in place yet at Lossie so my best guess is Prestwick using Gannet and the Ryanair 737 hub or Waddington. Kinloss has lost its all weather certification now.

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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (Future Maritime Patrol Aircraft) (RAF)

Post by bobp »

The article also talks about the uk wanting to keep the cost of us equipment down maybe buying more from uk.

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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (Future Maritime Patrol Aircraft) (RAF)

Post by S M H »

The U.K. equipment keeping the cost down could be the retrieved equipment from the M.R.A.4 nimrods as Boeing was the integrator and the the system on P-8A is an upgraded system. If upgraded the retreived equipment is cheaper than procuring new mission system for the U.K. airframes . If the M.R.A.4 made it into service they would probably have had the same upgrades.

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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (Future Maritime Patrol Aircraft) (RAF)

Post by RichardIC »

S M H wrote:The U.K. equipment keeping the cost down could be the retrieved equipment from the M.R.A.4 nimrods as Boeing was the integrator and the the system on P-8A is an upgraded system. If upgraded the retreived equipment is cheaper than procuring new mission system for the U.K. airframes . If the M.R.A.4 made it into service they would probably have had the same upgrades.
Nooooooo. Keep it simple. Take standard P-8 off the production line and maintain utter commonality with USN versions - that's the way to make it affordable and sustainable. Every time we frig around trying to add our own unique bit of kit it will add fortunes to the cost and make future upgrades more problematic.

That's what we've done with C-17 and with Rivet Joint. It works.

(I suspect the only exception will be secure comms with our submarines)

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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (Future Maritime Patrol Aircraft) (RAF)

Post by Little J »

Or design something so good, even the yanks want it on their airframes :)

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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (Future Maritime Patrol Aircraft) (RAF)

Post by RichardIC »

Now this really is worth taking as look at:

http://apdcpodcasts.blogspot.co.uk/2015 ... w=magazine

Glorious 66-slide presentation on how Australia plans to introduce the P-8 into service.

Particularly worth noting is slide 17:

"Procurement with the US Navy under a Cooperative Program - Australia require 12 aircraft. The USN up to 117 aircraft. - Shared acquisition, engineering and logistics functions
- Cooperatively developed future capability
- Sustainment efficiencies for the P-8A fleet
•  RAAF P-8A is virtually identical to USN P-8A"

Other fascinating snippets include the intention to provide only 15% of pilot training hours in the air with the remaining 85% in the sim (as opposed to 67/33 on the P-3). That's the bit that really shouldn't get sacrificed in our hurry to spare the Government's blushes and get our aircraft in-service in a rush.

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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (Future Maritime Patrol Aircraft) (RAF)

Post by Tony Williams »

RichardIC wrote:
S M H wrote:The U.K. equipment keeping the cost down could be the retrieved equipment from the M.R.A.4 nimrods as Boeing was the integrator and the the system on P-8A is an upgraded system. If upgraded the retreived equipment is cheaper than procuring new mission system for the U.K. airframes . If the M.R.A.4 made it into service they would probably have had the same upgrades.
Nooooooo. Keep it simple. Take standard P-8 off the production line and maintain utter commonality with USN versions - that's the way to make it affordable and sustainable. Every time we frig around trying to add our own unique bit of kit it will add fortunes to the cost and make future upgrades more problematic.
Absolutely! We should surely have learned this lesson by now.

If we are able (financially as well as technically) to develop our own items of equipment which are at least as good as anyone else's and preferably better, that's fine (and with any luck, we'll get some export sales). But if we have decided to buy a complex weapon system from abroad, we should just take the thing straight off their production line, as it is. Fiddling about with the specification, adding local content or setting up a local production line are all guaranteed to inflate the cost and delay introduction.

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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (Future Maritime Patrol Aircraft) (RAF)

Post by S M H »

The difference between the M. R.A. 4 and the P8 system is like the difference between our two rivet joint airframes systems. Why should we not reduce the bill as the system is as fitted to P8 airframes. Using system we own! Doing the upgrade the system from the M.R.A. 4 turning them into to the P8A system (that's if they then become the identical to the new ones. if cheaper) In not advocating the Nimrods other equipment except our sub coms system. The Searchwater radar probably has a new use.

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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (Future Maritime Patrol Aircraft) (RAF)

Post by RichardIC »

S M H wrote:Why should we not reduce the bill as the system is as fitted to P8 airframes. Using system we own!
Cos it won't reduce the bill. Doing anything that is non-standard will add complexity, expense and time.

So would you
a) ask Boeing to add the kit while the aircraft are on the production line? I suspect Boeing and the USN would tell us, "sod off, you're not messing up production and risking all subsequent deliveries being fouled up".
or
b) Get bare bones aircraft flown over so BAE can spend the next decade tinkering about with them. By the time they get them finished the bill will have gone through the roof, and the US and Australia will have introduced dozens of upgrades we won't have.

It's nuts.

And, by the way, what happened to the mission systems from the MRA4? Are they in a lock-up somewhere?; Have they been taken out of the lock-up on a regular basis, dusted down and fired-up to check they work, just on the off-chance that at some future date we'd fit them into another airframe?; Were they even all produced and tested?; Do they still exist?

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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (Future Maritime Patrol Aircraft) (RAF)

Post by marktigger »

well they are looking at leasing 2 USN ones with UK crews as a stop gap measure...might indicate there will be minimal differences.

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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (Future Maritime Patrol Aircraft) (RAF)

Post by Old RN »

As I understand the Indians have added a MAD boom. That and the integration of the Stingray torpedo in place of the Mk54 is all that should be sensibly considered.

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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (Future Maritime Patrol Aircraft) (RAF)

Post by jimthelad »

We HAVE leased 3 for OTU usage in the states. There was a P8 at Prestwick 2 weeks ago with no markings as well. At the same time there were 4 merlin, 2T23, and a T45 buggering about Arran. ? Mr Putin's atomic dustbin ? The biggest problem is at the moment we don't have the infrastructure to support them in the UK.

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Re: Boeing P-8A Poseidon (Future Maritime Patrol Aircraft) (RAF)

Post by arfah »

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