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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Posted: 24 Nov 2021, 22:38
by SW1
Jensy wrote: 24 Nov 2021, 22:25
sunstersun wrote: 23 Nov 2021, 18:08 Potential F-35 B users and confirmed

UK, Italy, Japan

Korea, Spain, Australia, India(wildcard)

Man the Navy really got fuked. No potential C users ever.
Yeah, funny back in the early noughties, you'd think the B was the condemned variant and that the C would be snagged by 'probe & drogue' refuelling users who didn't want to fund the modifications for the A.

Fitting folding wings has seemed a bit of a peculiar choice with hindsight, considering:

1) The vastness of US CVN hangars, that haven't exactly been stretched by post-Cold War airgroups.

2) It's additional weight, alongside the other carrier mods negate most of the increased fuel capacity.

Then again the USN, having wasted a great deal of political capital on the A-12 and NATF, would probably have taken any stealth platform available by the late 90s...

Funny you should mention India. Was reading a rather scathing description of their experiences with the Fulcrum/ongoing Tejas woes last night, and came to think that their best option is probably the F-35B (assuming it would be available to them)....
Folding wings have nothing to do with size of the carrier and everything to do with the size of the wing required for the recovery on deck, approach speeds and glide slope and the fact that LO requirement limited the size and number of flap and slats.

The C variant was always us navy only it remains to be seen how many of each type will be built regardless of the number of operators.

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Posted: 24 Nov 2021, 22:58
by Scimitar54
With regard to USN CVNs and F35Cs with folding wing tips, perhaps you had forgotten two considerations:-

1. The reduced number of Deck Edge Lifts (on the FORD Class).
2. The possible need to develop and retrofit larger Deck Edge Lifts on every CVN !

With regard to the second point above, even if such a project were feasible, the cost and the reduction in CVN availability would almost certainly rule it out. Much easier to have the “Folding Wing Tips”.

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Posted: 24 Nov 2021, 23:44
by Jensy
SW1 wrote: 24 Nov 2021, 22:38
Folding wings have nothing to do with size of the carrier and everything to do with the size of the wing required for the recovery on deck, approach speeds and glide slope and the fact that LO requirement limited the size and number of flap and slats.
My point was not about wing area but rather deck/hangar footprint of the F-35C. Though you are quite right, hence the historic appeal of VG for carrier ops. Even as late as the very early 90s.
Scimitar54 wrote: 24 Nov 2021, 22:58 With regard to USN CVNs and F35Cs with folding wing tips, perhaps you had forgotten two considerations:-

1. The reduced number of Deck Edge Lifts (on the FORD Class).
2. The possible need to develop and retrofit larger Deck Edge Lifts on every CVN !

With regard to the second point above, even if such a project were feasible, the cost and the reduction in CVN availability would almost certainly rule it out. Much easier to have the “Folding Wing Tips”.
Both fair points, though I'd note that the USN has had aircraft of similar unfolded span in recent memory. Also the reduction in lifts is fairly in line with the declining size of the carriers' air wings.

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Posted: 25 Nov 2021, 21:23
by abc123
Yes, I know it's The Sun- they say that the cause of the crash is non-removal of plastic cover for engine intakes:

https://theaviationist.com/2021/11/24/f ... ble-cause/

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Posted: 29 Nov 2021, 20:34
by TheLoneRanger
Video of launch failure of F35B on QE -


Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Posted: 29 Nov 2021, 20:43
by TheLoneRanger

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Posted: 30 Nov 2021, 04:07
by sunstersun
well it was nice knowing the maint crew i guess.

off to the tower.

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Posted: 30 Nov 2021, 06:34
by Scimitar54
Attempting take-off with the brakes on ?

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Posted: 30 Nov 2021, 18:02
by 2HeadsBetter
Here's a couple of normal take offs and the excellent view from flyco.


Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Posted: 30 Nov 2021, 23:40
by sunstersun
Scimitar54 wrote: 30 Nov 2021, 06:34 Attempting take-off with the brakes on ?
Yup. Covers are still on T_T

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Posted: 01 Dec 2021, 10:44
by Little J
Still don't get how covers on is possible... The amount of people that would have to have failed to do their jobs for that to happen...

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Posted: 01 Dec 2021, 15:04
by Scimitar54
Maybe just a “Cover” story ?

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Posted: 01 Dec 2021, 17:46
by Jensy
Scimitar54 wrote: 30 Nov 2021, 06:34 Attempting take-off with the brakes on ?
Was that not the pilot trying to save the aircraft? Sadly not enough deck to stop in time (mutters something about 300m Alpha CVF design...)
Little J wrote: 01 Dec 2021, 10:44 Still don't get how covers on is possible... The amount of people that would have to have failed to do their jobs for that to happen...
I've seen some speculation that it could have been a lift fan/ventral intake cover. In which case it might not be as easily spotted at flight deck level as the forward blanks.

Either way, it would appear that this is a very expensive lesson which needs to be learnt well.

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Posted: 01 Dec 2021, 18:45
by SW1

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Posted: 03 Dec 2021, 21:48
by downsizer
Airframe serial number has been leaked for the spotters amongst you....

ZM......

Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Posted: 03 Dec 2021, 23:29
by Timmymagic
I'll finish it off...