F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Contains threads on Joint Service equipment of the past, present and future.

How do you feel about the F-35B for the RN and RAF? (2 votes per member)

GOOD choice for the Royal Navy
139
44%
BAD choice for the Royal Navy
13
4%
Uncertain (RN)
15
5%
GOOD choice for the Royal Air Force
60
19%
BAD choice for the Royal Air Force
43
14%
Uncertain (RAF)
45
14%
 
Total votes: 315

SW1
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Post by SW1 »

Jensy wrote: 24 Nov 2021, 22:25
sunstersun wrote: 23 Nov 2021, 18:08 Potential F-35 B users and confirmed

UK, Italy, Japan

Korea, Spain, Australia, India(wildcard)

Man the Navy really got fuked. No potential C users ever.
Yeah, funny back in the early noughties, you'd think the B was the condemned variant and that the C would be snagged by 'probe & drogue' refuelling users who didn't want to fund the modifications for the A.

Fitting folding wings has seemed a bit of a peculiar choice with hindsight, considering:

1) The vastness of US CVN hangars, that haven't exactly been stretched by post-Cold War airgroups.

2) It's additional weight, alongside the other carrier mods negate most of the increased fuel capacity.

Then again the USN, having wasted a great deal of political capital on the A-12 and NATF, would probably have taken any stealth platform available by the late 90s...

Funny you should mention India. Was reading a rather scathing description of their experiences with the Fulcrum/ongoing Tejas woes last night, and came to think that their best option is probably the F-35B (assuming it would be available to them)....
Folding wings have nothing to do with size of the carrier and everything to do with the size of the wing required for the recovery on deck, approach speeds and glide slope and the fact that LO requirement limited the size and number of flap and slats.

The C variant was always us navy only it remains to be seen how many of each type will be built regardless of the number of operators.

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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Post by Scimitar54 »

With regard to USN CVNs and F35Cs with folding wing tips, perhaps you had forgotten two considerations:-

1. The reduced number of Deck Edge Lifts (on the FORD Class).
2. The possible need to develop and retrofit larger Deck Edge Lifts on every CVN !

With regard to the second point above, even if such a project were feasible, the cost and the reduction in CVN availability would almost certainly rule it out. Much easier to have the “Folding Wing Tips”.

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Jensy
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Post by Jensy »

SW1 wrote: 24 Nov 2021, 22:38
Folding wings have nothing to do with size of the carrier and everything to do with the size of the wing required for the recovery on deck, approach speeds and glide slope and the fact that LO requirement limited the size and number of flap and slats.
My point was not about wing area but rather deck/hangar footprint of the F-35C. Though you are quite right, hence the historic appeal of VG for carrier ops. Even as late as the very early 90s.
Scimitar54 wrote: 24 Nov 2021, 22:58 With regard to USN CVNs and F35Cs with folding wing tips, perhaps you had forgotten two considerations:-

1. The reduced number of Deck Edge Lifts (on the FORD Class).
2. The possible need to develop and retrofit larger Deck Edge Lifts on every CVN !

With regard to the second point above, even if such a project were feasible, the cost and the reduction in CVN availability would almost certainly rule it out. Much easier to have the “Folding Wing Tips”.
Both fair points, though I'd note that the USN has had aircraft of similar unfolded span in recent memory. Also the reduction in lifts is fairly in line with the declining size of the carriers' air wings.

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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Post by abc123 »

Yes, I know it's The Sun- they say that the cause of the crash is non-removal of plastic cover for engine intakes:

https://theaviationist.com/2021/11/24/f ... ble-cause/
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…

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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Post by TheLoneRanger »

Video of launch failure of F35B on QE -



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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Post by sunstersun »

well it was nice knowing the maint crew i guess.

off to the tower.

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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Post by Scimitar54 »

Attempting take-off with the brakes on ?

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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Post by 2HeadsBetter »

Here's a couple of normal take offs and the excellent view from flyco.


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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Post by sunstersun »

Scimitar54 wrote: 30 Nov 2021, 06:34 Attempting take-off with the brakes on ?
Yup. Covers are still on T_T

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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Post by Little J »

Still don't get how covers on is possible... The amount of people that would have to have failed to do their jobs for that to happen...

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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Post by Scimitar54 »

Maybe just a “Cover” story ?

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Jensy
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Post by Jensy »

Scimitar54 wrote: 30 Nov 2021, 06:34 Attempting take-off with the brakes on ?
Was that not the pilot trying to save the aircraft? Sadly not enough deck to stop in time (mutters something about 300m Alpha CVF design...)
Little J wrote: 01 Dec 2021, 10:44 Still don't get how covers on is possible... The amount of people that would have to have failed to do their jobs for that to happen...
I've seen some speculation that it could have been a lift fan/ventral intake cover. In which case it might not be as easily spotted at flight deck level as the forward blanks.

Either way, it would appear that this is a very expensive lesson which needs to be learnt well.

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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Post by SW1 »


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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Post by downsizer »

Airframe serial number has been leaked for the spotters amongst you....

ZM......

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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Post by Timmymagic »

I'll finish it off...


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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Post by SKB »

Image

ZM152 (BK-18)
First flight: 12th June 2019. Delivered to RAF Marham: 16th July 2019.

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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Post by sunstersun »

https://www.iltalehti.fi/politiikka/a/8 ... 255e54d3f4

Sources: Finnish Defense Forces nominates US F-35 as Finland's new fighter
The Finnish Defense Forces proposes the US F-35 as Finland's next fighter. The matter is confirmed to Iltalehti from several sources of foreign and security policy.

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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Post by Defiance »

Remember, the F-35 is a turkey and completely rubbish despite winning every competitive evaluation it has entered. :lol:

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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Post by Lord Jim »

SO does that infer that the F-35 is the Finnish Air Forces preferred platform or that it has actually won the contest?

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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Post by sunstersun »

Lord Jim wrote: 05 Dec 2021, 23:37 SO does that infer that the F-35 is the Finnish Air Forces preferred platform or that it has actually won the contest?
Results of the test have come out, however some universities don't look at test scores I guess when there are words like sovereignty and CIA around.

The Finnish military cannot give anything but their objective opinion, while the Politicians can make subjective calls, tale as old as time.

However, Finns don't play politics when it comes to these things. Must be proximity to danger sharpening the senses.

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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Post by seaspear »

Is there a consideration that Finland may consider the b model of the f35 for the same reasons as perhaps Singapore?
https://www.asianmilitaryreview.com/202 ... quisition/

jonas
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Post by jonas »

Commons written answers :- attrition rates.

https://questions-statements.parliament ... 1-25/81886

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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Post by Timmymagic »

Timmymagic wrote: 28 Oct 2021, 20:03
N.B. - LRIP 13 and 14 have been affected by COVID delays. Given the completion dates of the LRIP 13 a/c delivered in Oct 21 it is possible that we might see the remaining 3 a/c of that LRIP delivered in the first part of 2022 rather than at the tail end of the year that we have gotten used to. LRIP 14's 3 a/c for delivery in 2022 might turn up at the back end of the year.
Think this is actually going to happen....all 3 of the UK's next F-35B (ZM159, ZM160 and ZM161) are finished and flying...we should hopefully see a trail over the Atlantic in the next month or 2. Might even be expedited following the loss of 1 airframe to maintain training etc.

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