F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

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Timmymagic
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Post by Timmymagic »

sunstersun wrote: 13 Mar 2023, 17:40 Keeps the Pratt engine.

Convenient for all international partners.
It's good news for the UK, there was never any real prospect of a full re-engining programme, so development of the F-135 is the best option for us.

dmereifield
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Post by dmereifield »

Excuse my ignorance, but why is that convenient for international partners?

Ron5
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Post by Ron5 »

Timmymagic wrote: 13 Mar 2023, 19:06
sunstersun wrote: 13 Mar 2023, 17:40 Keeps the Pratt engine.

Convenient for all international partners.
It's good news for the UK, there was never any real prospect of a full re-engining programme, so development of the F-135 is the best option for us.
It's the best option for the UK because as far as I know, the new, new engines would only be supported on the F-35A & F-35C.

Timmymagic
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Post by Timmymagic »

dmereifield wrote: 13 Mar 2023, 22:52 Excuse my ignorance, but why is that convenient for international partners?
We don't all have mansized budgets to go and re-engine like the US does...plus a lot of international users have completed their purchases and will have them all delivered by the time any alternative engine would be developed for new production. This way they get the ability to enhance their exisitng engines, using their existing support and maintenance arrangements at a reasonable cost.
Ron5 wrote: 14 Mar 2023, 13:20 It's the best option for the UK because as far as I know, the new, new engines would only be supported on the F-35A & F-35C.
There had recently been a quote from GE that they were looking to also adapt the engines to F-35B. But I suspect that that was a bit of marketing...probably no more than back of the fag packet stuff...and only achievable in new production or colossal cost.
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Post by Ron5 »

Timmymagic wrote: 14 Mar 2023, 14:16 ... mansized budgets ...
Very good :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

sunstersun
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Post by sunstersun »

UK could do something like 2 meteors and 4 Cudas for 6 air to air missiles. Sidekick is not gonna be available for the B version.

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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Post by Ron5 »

sunstersun wrote: 28 Mar 2023, 17:57 UK could do something like 2 meteors and 4 Cudas for 6 air to air missiles. Sidekick is not gonna be available for the B version.
What are you talking about? Current plan has UK F-35's carrying 6 missiles: 4 Meteor and 2 ASRAAM.

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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Post by Timmymagic »

sunstersun wrote: 28 Mar 2023, 17:57 UK could do something like 2 meteors and 4 Cudas for 6 air to air missiles. Sidekick is not gonna be available for the B version.
4 Meteor and 2 Asraam will be plenty.

The max loadout of missiles of current and previous generation fighters was 4 medium range and 4 short ranged missiles. But all those missiles had a far smaller chance of hitting a target than modern missiles.

SW1
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Post by SW1 »

Timmymagic wrote: 30 Mar 2023, 00:43
sunstersun wrote: 28 Mar 2023, 17:57 UK could do something like 2 meteors and 4 Cudas for 6 air to air missiles. Sidekick is not gonna be available for the B version.
4 Meteor and 2 Asraam will be plenty.

The max loadout of missiles of current and previous generation fighters was 4 medium range and 4 short ranged missiles. But all those missiles had a far smaller chance of hitting a target than modern missiles.
The 4 plus 4 missile load out is the standard load out but there is a combat loadout that is higher on typhoon which carries 2 extra meteor.

downsizer
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Post by downsizer »

SW1 wrote: 30 Mar 2023, 08:18
Timmymagic wrote: 30 Mar 2023, 00:43
sunstersun wrote: 28 Mar 2023, 17:57 UK could do something like 2 meteors and 4 Cudas for 6 air to air missiles. Sidekick is not gonna be available for the B version.
4 Meteor and 2 Asraam will be plenty.

The max loadout of missiles of current and previous generation fighters was 4 medium range and 4 short ranged missiles. But all those missiles had a far smaller chance of hitting a target than modern missiles.
The 4 plus 4 missile load out is the standard load out but there is a combat loadout that is higher on typhoon which carries 2 extra meteor.
Is there? Is it in the RTS?

SW1
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Post by SW1 »

downsizer wrote: 30 Mar 2023, 09:02
SW1 wrote: 30 Mar 2023, 08:18
Timmymagic wrote: 30 Mar 2023, 00:43
sunstersun wrote: 28 Mar 2023, 17:57 UK could do something like 2 meteors and 4 Cudas for 6 air to air missiles. Sidekick is not gonna be available for the B version.
4 Meteor and 2 Asraam will be plenty.

The max loadout of missiles of current and previous generation fighters was 4 medium range and 4 short ranged missiles. But all those missiles had a far smaller chance of hitting a target than modern missiles.
The 4 plus 4 missile load out is the standard load out but there is a combat loadout that is higher on typhoon which carries 2 extra meteor.
Is there? Is it in the RTS?
Industry flew a 6 BVRAAM option for a customer not 100% if it was ever taken into RAF service.

downsizer
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Post by downsizer »

SW1 wrote: 30 Mar 2023, 09:48
downsizer wrote: 30 Mar 2023, 09:02
SW1 wrote: 30 Mar 2023, 08:18
Timmymagic wrote: 30 Mar 2023, 00:43
sunstersun wrote: 28 Mar 2023, 17:57 UK could do something like 2 meteors and 4 Cudas for 6 air to air missiles. Sidekick is not gonna be available for the B version.
4 Meteor and 2 Asraam will be plenty.

The max loadout of missiles of current and previous generation fighters was 4 medium range and 4 short ranged missiles. But all those missiles had a far smaller chance of hitting a target than modern missiles.
The 4 plus 4 missile load out is the standard load out but there is a combat loadout that is higher on typhoon which carries 2 extra meteor.
Is there? Is it in the RTS?
Industry flew a 6 BVRAAM option for a customer not 100% if it was ever taken into RAF service.
It's not in the RTS, so it isn't an option or integrated.

SW1
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Post by SW1 »

downsizer wrote: 30 Mar 2023, 12:45
SW1 wrote: 30 Mar 2023, 09:48
downsizer wrote: 30 Mar 2023, 09:02
SW1 wrote: 30 Mar 2023, 08:18
Timmymagic wrote: 30 Mar 2023, 00:43
sunstersun wrote: 28 Mar 2023, 17:57 UK could do something like 2 meteors and 4 Cudas for 6 air to air missiles. Sidekick is not gonna be available for the B version.
4 Meteor and 2 Asraam will be plenty.

The max loadout of missiles of current and previous generation fighters was 4 medium range and 4 short ranged missiles. But all those missiles had a far smaller chance of hitting a target than modern missiles.
The 4 plus 4 missile load out is the standard load out but there is a combat loadout that is higher on typhoon which carries 2 extra meteor.
Is there? Is it in the RTS?
Industry flew a 6 BVRAAM option for a customer not 100% if it was ever taken into RAF service.
It's not in the RTS, so it isn't an option or integrated.
Ok it’s not for the RAF it is for other operators.

downsizer
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Post by downsizer »

SW1 wrote: 30 Mar 2023, 09:48
downsizer wrote: 30 Mar 2023, 09:02
SW1 wrote: 30 Mar 2023, 08:18
Timmymagic wrote: 30 Mar 2023, 00:43
sunstersun wrote: 28 Mar 2023, 17:57 UK could do something like 2 meteors and 4 Cudas for 6 air to air missiles. Sidekick is not gonna be available for the B version.
4 Meteor and 2 Asraam will be plenty.

The max loadout of missiles of current and previous generation fighters was 4 medium range and 4 short ranged missiles. But all those missiles had a far smaller chance of hitting a target than modern missiles.
The 4 plus 4 missile load out is the standard load out but there is a combat loadout that is higher on typhoon which carries 2 extra meteor.
Is there? Is it in the RTS?
Industry flew a 6 BVRAAM option for a customer not 100% if it was ever taken into RAF service.
Who? Who has integrated a 6 missile fit?
SW1 wrote: 30 Mar 2023, 13:00
downsizer wrote: 30 Mar 2023, 12:45
SW1 wrote: 30 Mar 2023, 09:48
downsizer wrote: 30 Mar 2023, 09:02
SW1 wrote: 30 Mar 2023, 08:18
Timmymagic wrote: 30 Mar 2023, 00:43
sunstersun wrote: 28 Mar 2023, 17:57 UK could do something like 2 meteors and 4 Cudas for 6 air to air missiles. Sidekick is not gonna be available for the B version.
4 Meteor and 2 Asraam will be plenty.

The max loadout of missiles of current and previous generation fighters was 4 medium range and 4 short ranged missiles. But all those missiles had a far smaller chance of hitting a target than modern missiles.
The 4 plus 4 missile load out is the standard load out but there is a combat loadout that is higher on typhoon which carries 2 extra meteor.
Is there? Is it in the RTS?
Industry flew a 6 BVRAAM option for a customer not 100% if it was ever taken into RAF service.
It's not in the RTS, so it isn't an option or integrated.
Ok it’s not for the RAF it is for other operators.

SW1
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Post by SW1 »

downsizer wrote: 30 Mar 2023, 13:43
SW1 wrote: 30 Mar 2023, 09:48
downsizer wrote: 30 Mar 2023, 09:02
SW1 wrote: 30 Mar 2023, 08:18
Timmymagic wrote: 30 Mar 2023, 00:43
sunstersun wrote: 28 Mar 2023, 17:57 UK could do something like 2 meteors and 4 Cudas for 6 air to air missiles. Sidekick is not gonna be available for the B version.
4 Meteor and 2 Asraam will be plenty.

The max loadout of missiles of current and previous generation fighters was 4 medium range and 4 short ranged missiles. But all those missiles had a far smaller chance of hitting a target than modern missiles.
The 4 plus 4 missile load out is the standard load out but there is a combat loadout that is higher on typhoon which carries 2 extra meteor.
Is there? Is it in the RTS?
Industry flew a 6 BVRAAM option for a customer not 100% if it was ever taken into RAF service.
Who? Who has integrated a 6 missile fit?
SW1 wrote: 30 Mar 2023, 13:00
downsizer wrote: 30 Mar 2023, 12:45
SW1 wrote: 30 Mar 2023, 09:48
downsizer wrote: 30 Mar 2023, 09:02
SW1 wrote: 30 Mar 2023, 08:18
Timmymagic wrote: 30 Mar 2023, 00:43
sunstersun wrote: 28 Mar 2023, 17:57 UK could do something like 2 meteors and 4 Cudas for 6 air to air missiles. Sidekick is not gonna be available for the B version.
4 Meteor and 2 Asraam will be plenty.

The max loadout of missiles of current and previous generation fighters was 4 medium range and 4 short ranged missiles. But all those missiles had a far smaller chance of hitting a target than modern missiles.
The 4 plus 4 missile load out is the standard load out but there is a combat loadout that is higher on typhoon which carries 2 extra meteor.
Is there? Is it in the RTS?
Industry flew a 6 BVRAAM option for a customer not 100% if it was ever taken into RAF service.
It's not in the RTS, so it isn't an option or integrated.
Ok it’s not for the RAF it is for other operators.
[/quote

Luftwaffe and someone in the mid east.

downsizer
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Post by downsizer »

Link.....? Or proof? As opposed to industry photos?

SW1
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Post by SW1 »

downsizer wrote: 30 Mar 2023, 14:21 Link.....? Or proof? As opposed to industry photos?
https://www.defensenews.com/global/euro ... ter-fleet/

Only thing I can find after a google that isn’t industry, hope this sufficient. Original initial industry test flight were flown about 10 years ago now.

downsizer
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Post by downsizer »

SW1 wrote: 30 Mar 2023, 16:07
downsizer wrote: 30 Mar 2023, 14:21 Link.....? Or proof? As opposed to industry photos?
https://www.defensenews.com/global/euro ... ter-fleet/

Only thing I can find after a google that isn’t industry, hope this sufficient. Original initial industry test flight were flown about 10 years ago now.
You claimed a 6 meteor fit, haven't seen one as yet?

SW1
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Post by SW1 »

All the dirty secrets from the mid 00s which provided much head scratching and redesign in the engineering teams coming out now, should never of cancelled f136 larger core more power more growth potential.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/f ... -now-vital

They also highlighted the importance of power and thermal management system (PTMS) improvements for the jets. This is essential for meeting the additional electrical power and cooling needs that the Technology Refresh-3 (TR-3) and Block 4 upgrade programs – both of which continue to suffer delays – will require.

"We compared these engines [options for the F-35], the AETP engine, the current engine, [and] modernization of the current engine," Air Force Lt. Gen. Michael Schmidt, the current head of the F-35 Joint Program Office (JPO), explained. He said his office also had done work on "identifying a significant power and thermal management system requirement, and we evaluated numerous options of power and thermal management systems to get us to various levels of cooling and power that is required."

"We have been eating into the life of this engine since the beginning of the program, because we did under-spec the engine and its requirements," he continued. "We are building costs into this program by eating into the life of this engine with additional overhauls that are expected over the life of the program."

U.S. Marine Corps Lt. Gen. Michael Cederholm, the Deputy Commandant for Aviation, also offered up additional details about the benefits of the ECU for the F135.
"On the Marine Corps perspective, what this engine core upgrade does is it gives us greater bring back capability to the boat. What does that mean? We can bring back 1,000 pounds more to the boat, which gives us life," he explained. "Fuel is life. Time on station is life for us. So that's why we are excited about the ECU and PTMS upgrades."

It is also worth remembering here that the Marines are the only branch of the U.S. military to operate the F-35B, which uses the F135-PW-600 with its lower maximum thrust rating. Serious safety concerns about the F-35B's ability to maintain sufficient power to sustain vertical flight at high temperatures had previously emerged in 2019. The aircraft's manufacturer, Lockheed Martin, said at the time that it would implement a fix to the aircraft's flight software to address these issues.

bobp
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Post by bobp »

It seems that the newest update (TR3) has been delayed again until 2024. Story here...

https://www.defensenews.com/air/2023/03 ... akers-ire/

GarethDavies1
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Post by GarethDavies1 »

Just one big cash cow

Ron5
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Post by Ron5 »

GarethDavies1 wrote: 02 Apr 2023, 09:37 Just one big cash cow
Any different from any other big defense program in any other country?

BTW the software did it. Achilles heel of new gen programs.

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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Post by GarethDavies1 »

Yes it is different as its the biggest defence project in history.

Ron5
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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Post by Ron5 »

GarethDavies1 wrote: 02 Apr 2023, 18:36 Yes it is different as its the biggest defence project in history.
So other programs are not cash cows, interesting.

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Re: F-35B Lightning (RAF & RN)

Post by SKB »

From 31st March...
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