Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

[Scimitar54]

Just like the Pensioners that the Independenista’s say that they will not pay then!

[wargame_insomniac]

Interesting write up on Naval News on the Poland Frigate procurement contract being fought out between the two finalists, the Babcock A140 and TKMS Meko A-300.

"The Polish Ministry of Defense stated in a press release that the evaluation was based on criteria such as tactical and technical parameters, combat potential, the possibility of unifying the acquired military equipment with the equipment currently owned by the Polish Armed Forces, as well as the life cycle costs of the proposed solutions and their potential for further modernization.

The most notable part of the announcement was that the proposals presented by German (TKMS) and British (Babcock) industrial partners scored within 5% of each other, which shows that the final phase of the negotiations would be tough."

No information on Babcock A140 proposal but TKMS released info on weapons loadout so expect similar capabilities for the A140 if Poland takes up the options in the proposal, a case of what could have been, makes the A140/T31 look toothless.

A-300
68 surface-to-air missiles, 42 point-defence missiles and 16 anti-ship missiles. 32 Mk41 VLS cells fwd and 36 VLS cells mid hull for the MRADSAM, Israeali Barak 8 missiles, two 21 cell launchers for RAM CIWS, expect the 16 anti-ship missiles will be the NSM as Poland has bought them for its Coastal Missile Division.

The main gun will be the OTO Melara 127/64 mm Vulcano, two Rheinmetall? High Energy Laser (HEL) systems (front and rear), two Millennium? 35 or Bofors? 40 mm cannons either side of hanger and two 12.7 mm remote weapon systems

Two Atlas SeaSpider anti-torpedo torpedos, MASS ECM decoys plus from four stern mounted TEU with possibility to fit 533mm HWT, VDS, passive TA, MCM UUV etc plus a stern ramp for two 11m RHIBs

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... -in-final/

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... n-program/

[jonas]

https://www.navaltoday.com/2022/02/23/b ... -frigates/

[jonas]

Gabriele Molinelli
@Gabriel64869839
Government response to the Defence Committee insists on MK41 for Type 31 (which we had already heard about); on adopting it for future ships (Type 32 and Type 83), and we expected it, but adds the possibility of retrofitting it to existing classes. That ought to mean Type 45.
Quote Tweet
Gabriele Molinelli
@Gabriel64869839
· Feb 25
"Whichever maritime missile system is acquired through the Future Cruise/Anti-Ship
Weapon (FC/ASW) programme, it will be compatible with Mk 41 [...] RN is exploring opportunities to fit Mk 41 launchers to other classes of ships, including Type 31".

[SW1]

Looks like the A140 just won the Polish contract...looks like we can add the Polish Navy to the Sea Ceptor user list...





Google Translation of Press Release

As a result of analyzes of materials provided by the PGZ-MIECZNIK Consortium in December 2021, the Polish Armed Forces made a preselection of preferred suppliers of the platform design and combat system for new multi-purpose ships of the Polish Navy. In the course of negotiations, the PGZ-MIECZNIK Consortium concluded strategic cooperation agreements with suppliers of first choice - Babcock, Thales UK and MBDA UK.

- Agreements that we have concluded so far with the key suppliers of the new frigates project for our Navy, as well as key components of the combat system, including air defense, guarantee that these ships will be built in Poland, will be equipped and armed here, and will represent the interests of our country for the seas and oceans - said Sebastian Chwałek, President of the Management Board of PGZ SA

The agreements regulate a number of issues regarding the terms of cooperation between the PGZ-MIECZNIK Consortium and foreign partners. The Babcock company will provide the AH140 platform design and a wide range of knowledge and technology enabling the construction of these units at PGZ Stoczni Wojennej Sp. z o. o. and Remontowa Shipbuilding SA Thales, responsible for the Integrated Combat System (ZSW) area, and MBDA, which will provide air defense systems, will cooperate with PGZ Stocznia Wojenna Sp. z o. o. and OBR CTM SA, which has been indicated as the competence center for these two foreign partners, key for the design, construction and service of the life cycle of new Polish Navy frigates.

- We make every effort to implement the next stages of this strategic program as soon as possible, both for the army and the industry. By maintaining the current pace, we are convinced that soon we will be able to talk about further successes - added Sebastian Chwałek.

The next stage is the preparation of the updated Industrial Feasibility Study (PSW) and the Preliminary Design of the ships, which will define the final configuration of the "Swordsmen". At the same time, works related to the transfer of technology and knowledge as well as the preparation of the potential for the production of the prototype of the "Miecznik" ship together with the ZSW - the first unit in the series will be launched. According to the schedule, construction of the ships will begin in 2023.

[bobp]

According to the schedule, construction of the ships will begin in 2023.

Seems they are keen to get started which is good news.

[donald_of_tokyo]

Good news.

And again, it is showing STILL NO EXPORT SHIPS will be built in Rosyth.

Design export is good, T31 following T26's success. However, this has nothing to do with NSbS. The NSnS stated that without export, the production line may not be able to survive. Still this issue is open, and Rosyth needs orders. (which I personally think MRSS and SSS is the best choice for now).

[Timmymagic]

And again, it is showing STILL NO EXPORT SHIPS will be built in Rosyth.

You have to wonder about the status of the Ukrainian Navy order as well now...

[NickC]

Thanks Timmymagic, , twitter image of the AH-140 for Poland appears to show forward main gun, not sure calibre or manufacture ?, 21 cell Mk114 launcher for RAM CIWS missiles , navigation radar, dedicated fire control radar for the main gun, NS100 or NS200 main radar, eight deck launchers for anti-ship missiles, 32 Mk41 VLS cells and Bofors 40 mm gun on top helo hanger. Anyone else has other interpretations?

[RichardIC]

Thanks Timmymagic, , twitter image of the AH-140 for Poland appears to show forward main gun, not sure calibre or manufacture ?, 21 cell Mk114 launcher for RAM CIWS missiles , navigation radar, dedicated fire control radar for the main gun, NS100 or NS200 main radar, eight deck launchers for anti-ship missiles, 32 Mk41 VLS cells and Bofors 40 mm gun on top helo hanger. Anyone else has other interpretations?

It's an old stock image taken from the Arrowhead 140 website. It long pre-dates the Poland bid so don't read anything into it.

https://www.arrowhead140.com/

[Jdam]

According to the schedule, construction of the ships will begin in 2023.

Seems they are keen to get started which is good news.

Recent events may have factored into that.

3 hulls to be make.

[RichardIC]

Good news.

And again, it is showing STILL NO EXPORT SHIPS will be built in Rosyth.

Design export is good, T31 following T26's success. However, this has nothing to do with NSbS. The NSnS stated that without export, the production line may not be able to survive. Still this issue is open, and Rosyth needs orders. (which I personally think MRSS and SSS is the best choice for now).

Donald, the Polish frigate competition winners were never going to be built anywhere but Poland, which you know full well, so I don't know why you're bibbling on about it.

Design, integration and the wider supply chain (including the unsexy stuff like valves!) is where the real value is and much of that is in the UK. Thales UK is supplying TACTICOS so really valuable integration work which may also benefit RN Type 31 in the future.

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... h-frigate/

Possibly the most significant thing here is that A140/Babcock/Type 31 has gone head-to-head with one of the MEKO family and won.

[SKB]

People seem to forget that the T31 is actually a Danish design (the Iver Huitfeldt class), not a British one.

[RichardIC]

People seem to forget that the T31 is actually a Danish design (the Iver Huitfeldt class), not a British one.

Contractually you're wrong.

[wargame_insomniac]

Pleased that Poland went for T31. It will ne nice to get some commercial sales after we have sent troops and aircraft out to reinforce them. Even if they build the ships in Poland, just getting the consultancy and integration work, and additional work for UK Supply Chain.

Lets hope that Baltic States also increase their defence spending and put some orders our way.

[SD67]

People seem to forget that the T31 is actually a Danish design (the Iver Huitfeldt class), not a British one.

Babcock own the IP now and pay a small royalty on each sale so it’s as British as a Bren gun

[bobp]

https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2022/ ... -frigates/



Article from Defence News

[rbeedall]

Good news, although not unexpected after the recent signing of the Poland-Ukraine-UK security pact. After a 25+ year hiatus, the Type 26 and 31 designs have re-established the UK's credibility in the international marketplace as a provider of new rather than just second-hand ex-RN warships. Once the Type 31 production line is humming, the chances of some export sales based on quick delivery will soar. The RN may not like the associated disruption to its own plans, but the French and Italian Navy's have long accepted that as both essential for maintaining the local industrial base, and as a means of getting economies of scale, i.e. cheaper warships. As for Thyssenkrupp Marine, the bad news is probably more than compensated by the announcement last weekend of an immediate Euro 100bn (£80bn!!!) increase in this years German defence budget - I'm sure that will mean plenty of lucrative orders as the Deutsche Marine puts together a long and expensive shopping list.

[SD67]

Good news.

And again, it is showing STILL NO EXPORT SHIPS will be built in Rosyth.

Design export is good, T31 following T26's success. However, this has nothing to do with NSbS. The NSnS stated that without export, the production line may not be able to survive. Still this issue is open, and Rosyth needs orders. (which I personally think MRSS and SSS is the best choice for now).

Oh come on Donald, Rosyrh has only just started cutting steel, anyone in the market for a physical complete export will want to buy from a hot line for immediate delivery. There’s plenty of time for NZ or Chile or Sri Lanka to buy a couple in the late 2020s

[Lord Jim]

Yep it is early day still. Despite my misgivings about the T-31, teh ability of Babcock to tailor the vessel to meet customer needs easily due to the nature of the vessels will help sales. Nations want where possible to establish and maintain an in house construction capability just as we do. As long as both Babcock and the RN are flexible on deliveries there is a good chance some ship slots currently allocated to teh RN could be switch to another customer. I still think the T-31 and T-32 programmes should be amalgamated into a single ten ship class for the Royal Navy , giving Babcock an established production run giving the latter more room to satisfy export customer as well as the former.

[donald_of_tokyo]

Donald, the Polish frigate competition winners were never going to be built anywhere but Poland, which you know full well, so I don't know why you're bibbling on about it.

No objection. Article says "the platform design and combat system", not ship export. But, sometimes some people mixes it with ship export. Just for clarification.

This win does not support Rosyth's welding and steelwork workers, electric engineers working on wiring and integration, and most of the engineers working on sensor/armament/integrated-ship-system integration. They still need job for coming two decades (until T31 replacement comes in).

Design, integration and the wider supply chain (including the unsexy stuff like valves!) is where the real value is and much of that is in the UK. Thales UK is supplying TACTICOS so really valuable integration work which may also benefit RN Type 31 in the future.

Only partly. We shall not forget A140 is based on Iver Huitfeldt class. We know MTU diesel, gearbox, NS100 radar, and 57 mm gun and 2 40 mm guns are not from UK.

Then, how about "wider supply chain"?

I am 100% sure Polish industry will try their best to provide most of the "wider supply chain" internally. I think most part of (of course, not ALL) "wider supply chain" introduced in UK can go to Poland, because T31 itself did it (in short timescale) from Danish design.

What will remain in UK is, detailed design (including building process and verification process) and systems engineering support (Babcock), integrated ship handling system support (Babcock), warfare sensor and CMS integration (Thales UK). (Not sure what MBDA UK is doing, but I guess it is SeaCeptor and CAMM?) But not sure how many on other items.

Oh come on Donald, Rosyrh has only just started cutting steel, anyone in the market for a physical complete export will want to buy from a hot line for immediate delivery. There’s plenty of time for NZ or Chile or Sri Lanka to buy a couple in the late 2020s

Agree. My point is, for Babcock, Thales UK, and MBDA UK, this Polish selection as "a preferred bidder" is very good. But for Rosyth, we need something to build there and such export campaign is much more needed.

Almost all of the work force established at Rosyth needs next order, and it must continue until late 2050s. Not only T32, but also SSS and MRSS will be of very important for Rosyth.

By the way, T31 is a ship "even a shipyard only with OPV build experience, upgrading frigates, and integrating CV under BAE leadership, can build". This is the very good point of A140 design. Babcock itself has proven it. So, I guess Chili will build it by themselves. They built OPV, they upgraded their T23 frigates. Very similar to Babcock case.

So, UK must approach to NZ as much as possible. But, it will be for only 2 or 3 hulls (or none).

Other nations?

[ArmChairCivvy]

Anyone remember a class in which the export orders matched those for the RN? Talking about new-builds only

[Poiuytrewq]

Almost all of the work force established at Rosyth needs next order, and it must continue until late 2050s. Not only T32, but also SSS and MRSS will be of very important for Rosyth.

The drumbeat is very important but Rosyth will simply not be able to build 10 T31/T32 plus 3 FSS and 6 MRSS in the next 15 years.

We are now entering a new era of increased defence spending across Europe and beyond. Many nations will want to increase escort numbers and with a potential Tier1 adversary the capability of such vessels will now need to be compatible with peer on peer conflict. This will raise costs and slow down manufacturing time scales.

From the UK perspective the war in Ukraine will probably require a new or revised SDSR to allow for the new reality that the global tectonic plates have shifted once again.

IMO any plans, budgets, time scales, and drumbeats set before 24/2/2002 are now obsolete and little credence should be applied to them until revised.

[ArmChairCivvy]

From the UK perspective the war in Ukraine will probably require a new or revised SDSR to allow for the new reality that the global tectonic plates have shifted once again.

While that is 100% true (there have also been wise words about not going into rapid changes, willy-nilly across the board), this just proves what 'sh*te' the SDSRs have been since (noti including) 1998 - in fact negating the whole 'letter S' in the name)

[Poiuytrewq]

…wise words about not going into rapid changes,

Actually I think we need some rapid change.

The length of some MOD programmes is now unbelievable. We need more “ACTION THIS DAY”.

The UK maritime defence strategy is heading the right direction but we just need more of everything. More T26, SSN, P8, Merlin, Wildcat, F35 and the Amphibious force needs to be replaced with a credible and updated version of what RN possessed before the cuts. The FSS programme needs to be completed within 5 years. All perfectly achievable if the political will existed.

The T31 as currently configured now needs a complete rethink. In a peer on peer engagement they would be little more than target practice. Due to the flexibility of the hull design rapid up-arming is certainly achievable and it may now be negligent NOT to do it.