Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]
Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]
US Navy MSI Mk38 Mod4 which think based on the DS30, assume MSI won the contract in preference to the incumbent US Navy BAE Mk38 Mod 3 25mm, as the DS30 gun mounting was capable of handling the ~50% heavier recoil of the more powerful 30 x 173 round needed for C-UAS than the 25 x 137 round.
PS Northrop Grumman with US Army have developed a 30mm proximity fuzed projectile
4:30
PS Northrop Grumman with US Army have developed a 30mm proximity fuzed projectile
4:30
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]
Yes the 30mm can be controlled but the small arms points still need manning so six crew needed to defend the shipBB85 wrote: ↑17 Jan 2023, 13:16 Is the current 30mm cannon not remotely operated? I know they have a chair and control panel attached to the side, but I'm sure I have seen them swivel and conduct test firings with an empty chair on online video's.
Some of the newer guns don't even have the chair at all, but that doesn't mean the older cannon needs to be manned at all times.
Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]
Thanks, makes sense now regarding the LMM reference. I had it in my head you were referring to the LMM missile mounts on the side of the DS30 cannons they where testing recently, not the Light Machine-gun Mounts that makes more sense
I'm guessing we will always require the light machine gun mounts as a redundancy measure in case the remotely operated cannons are out of action or the mk1 eyes balls have a wider field of view than what shows up at close range on a tv screen. Who knows someday they could all be AI operated and I wouldn't want to be sailing to close
I'm guessing we will always require the light machine gun mounts as a redundancy measure in case the remotely operated cannons are out of action or the mk1 eyes balls have a wider field of view than what shows up at close range on a tv screen. Who knows someday they could all be AI operated and I wouldn't want to be sailing to close
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]
Of course, it is unofficial, but Navylookout assumes
- CAMM is 12
- no hull sonar
- no NSM
- 3 RHIBs.
As expected. And, not so bad, actually.
- CAMM is 12
- no hull sonar
- no NSM
- 3 RHIBs.
As expected. And, not so bad, actually.
Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]
This configuration was based on comments from Babcocks and Thales (mostly Thales) at the time of the contract. The Thales guy actually said the radar could be easily upgraded to the next model up and that option was being kept open. Since then they've been more tight lipped and AFAIK, the website has been the only other company-blessed source of information.donald_of_tokyo wrote: ↑20 Jan 2023, 12:38 Of course, it is unofficial, but Navylookout assumes
- CAMM is 12
- no hull sonar
- no NSM
- 3 RHIBs.
As expected. And, not so bad, actually.
Somebody from the RN (sorry I don't remember who, what, or when) later said the number of CAMM was still under review and could be increased. Presumably because of the reported unhappiness within the Navy of the meager 12. Also presumably only if the base contract was met, the extra cost being taken from contingency funds.
I suspect now that MoD money is in even shorter supply than before, they will enter service with this config and any upgrades will the considered for the first refit.
I think the config is crap for a frigate. Unable to defend against, or hurt, any significant threat. And totally below the investment the Navy is making in resources and people. Very poor ROI. But I am guilty of beating a dead horse by saying this, all the arguments pro and con have already been made here.
- shark bait
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]
It is a bit crap. It's a frigate that can only defend itself, and its not goanna be great at that!
It's saving grace is the T31 is big, and with that comes potential to be less crap in the future.
It's saving grace is the T31 is big, and with that comes potential to be less crap in the future.
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]
Anyone can see that large parts if not all of the Navylookout article was a cut and paste job take from TomW's great post here on this every thread 10 days agodonald_of_tokyo wrote: ↑20 Jan 2023, 12:38 Of course, it is unofficial, but Navylookout assumes
- CAMM is 12
- no hull sonar
- no NSM
- 3 RHIBs.
As expected. And, not so bad, actually.
No I still believe type will sail on its first deployment with 24 CAMM , 8 x NSM & 2170 anti torpedo system
Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]
So that’s why:
This article is based on a paper submitted to the International Naval Engineering Conference, November 2022 by James Johnson (Type 31 Frigate Transversals Engineering Manager) and Matt Howard (Chief Engineer, Arrowhead-140), Babcock International, Bristol.
This article is based on a paper submitted to the International Naval Engineering Conference, November 2022 by James Johnson (Type 31 Frigate Transversals Engineering Manager) and Matt Howard (Chief Engineer, Arrowhead-140), Babcock International, Bristol.
Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]
It’s totally crap, and it’s not a positive to be big, relatively expensive and crew hungry.shark bait wrote: ↑20 Jan 2023, 15:48 It is a bit crap. It's a frigate that can only defend itself, and its not goanna be great at that!
It's saving grace is the T31 is big, and with that comes potential to be less crap in the future.
I accept we’ve got them now, but for god sake let’s make them capable - a large floating flagpole which is hopefully capable of running away from trouble is not a capability the RN needs.
”We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow." - Lord Palmerston
- Tempest414
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]
I hadn’t noticed that paper had been published here. Most enticing paragraph is:
As such, it is important to note that at the time of writing (May 2022) the capability that has been identified so far in open source material only comprises some of the systems included within the initial design & build contract, which is not the total capability of the Type 31 Frigate that will be delivered into RN service on the ISD.
The adaptable provisions designed within the platform will support the full capability that the RN will employ; a package of capability upgrades are planned to be installed in the Type 31 Frigates once the platforms are delivered by the shipbuilder, prior to ISD with the RN, as part of the overall MoD delivery programme.
As such, it is important to note that at the time of writing (May 2022) the capability that has been identified so far in open source material only comprises some of the systems included within the initial design & build contract, which is not the total capability of the Type 31 Frigate that will be delivered into RN service on the ISD.
The adaptable provisions designed within the platform will support the full capability that the RN will employ; a package of capability upgrades are planned to be installed in the Type 31 Frigates once the platforms are delivered by the shipbuilder, prior to ISD with the RN, as part of the overall MoD delivery programme.
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]
12 CAMM on entry into service? I'll beleive it when I see it
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]
I will easily believe that they will only carry 12 CAAM when they enter service but that will be because half of the 24 cells are empty.
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]
There is a planned programme for each ship to have capability inserted after they are accepted off contract. That will be mte plus any equipment rotated off decommissioned Type 23s. Increasing CAMM load to 24 does not materially increase the cost of the ship.
I think the thought of 32 mk 41 and nsm being fitted any time soon is very unlikely. In the late 20s, the navy will be funding SV-CAMM and Sea Viper SVE as well as trying to find headroom for type 32. FC?/ASW will also be costing a lot in that time frame and if nsm is fitted to other platforms, I expect it will go to the Type 26s.
Following on from the Ukraine war, if any additional money is found for defence, I expect the lions share will go to the army to close the existing horrendous capability gaps in artillery, gbad, ifvs and ammunition holdings etc.
I think the thought of 32 mk 41 and nsm being fitted any time soon is very unlikely. In the late 20s, the navy will be funding SV-CAMM and Sea Viper SVE as well as trying to find headroom for type 32. FC?/ASW will also be costing a lot in that time frame and if nsm is fitted to other platforms, I expect it will go to the Type 26s.
Following on from the Ukraine war, if any additional money is found for defence, I expect the lions share will go to the army to close the existing horrendous capability gaps in artillery, gbad, ifvs and ammunition holdings etc.
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]
Actually a T31 embarking 2 Wildcats is already a pretty formidable surface hunter without further adaptation. Add in 16x NSM (space already allocated) and the 32 FFBNW Mk41 cells are not a priority.shark bait wrote: ↑20 Jan 2023, 15:48 It is a bit crap. It's a frigate that can only defend itself….
IMO the location of the FFBNW Mk41 cells have massively compromised the amidships mission spaces which RN will eventually regret as the strike length cells are unlikely ever to be fitted. The mission space under the flightdeck is very welcome but without a deck crane, containers cannot be transferred between the mission spaces whilst at sea.
IMO the solution for the second batch of T31 (or T32) is pretty simple. First remove the 40mm from the B position and exchange with 16 Mk41 cells and 32 CAMM. Add the second 40mm above the hanger to allow for both port and starboard 40mm’s and retain the 57mm in the A position, or ideally, replace with the Mk45. Improve the amidships mission spaces by allowing TEUs to be transferred from the flightdeck through the hanger into the mission space and add a deck crane to allow the under flight deck space to be accessed whilst at sea. Add a stern ramp and ensure a TAS/VDS can be embarked if necessary via PODs. Lastly, retain the current space above the amidships mission area for 16 containerised NSM.
Finally RN would get the GP frigate that is desperately needed.
Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]
An interesting comment that prompted a couple of thoughts.pko100 wrote: ↑20 Jan 2023, 23:45 There is a planned programme for each ship to have capability inserted after they are accepted off contract. That will be mte plus any equipment rotated off decommissioned Type 23s. Increasing CAMM load to 24 does not materially increase the cost of the ship.
I think the thought of 32 mk 41 and nsm being fitted any time soon is very unlikely. In the late 20s, the navy will be funding SV-CAMM and Sea Viper SVE as well as trying to find headroom for type 32. FC?/ASW will also be costing a lot in that time frame and if nsm is fitted to other platforms, I expect it will go to the Type 26s.
Following on from the Ukraine war, if any additional money is found for defence, I expect the lions share will go to the army to close the existing horrendous capability gaps in artillery, gbad, ifvs and ammunition holdings etc.
Firstly, if additional CAMM cells are so cheap, why wasn't the base contract specified with 24, 36 or 48 cells?
Secondly, obviously, the MoD is going to be very short of money, inflation will continue, and the army will have its wishlist raised in priority. So what will save the plan to upgrade the T31's before service entry? Hard to see Wallace putting the cost of fitting extra missiles etc on a patrol frigate ahead of new artillery/missiles/tanks/Boxers for the army.
That's even assuming the T31's will come in on budget.
Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]
Hunting what? Fishing boats, pirates, Iranian boat swarms?Poiuytrewq wrote: ↑21 Jan 2023, 10:54 Actually a T31 embarking 2 Wildcats is already a pretty formidable surface hunter without further adaptation
Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]
An interesting viewpoint form Rachel Pawling. Read the entire thread.
Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]
An alternative view from Harry Lye. Once again, read the entire thread.
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]
No problem, T31 has a 57mm gun which can fire 3P ammo and even guided ammo, 2x 40mm gun with 3P ammo. It also has a state of the art ESM/ECM and decoy launcher
Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]
You’d need to let them get damn close to make any of that have a hope in hell to hit / deflect anything…donald_of_tokyo wrote: ↑21 Jan 2023, 16:17 No problem, T31 has a 57mm gun which can fire 3P ammo and even guided ammo, 2x 40mm gun with 3P ammo. It also has a state of the art ESM/ECM and decoy launcher
If they are that crap, best use them close to home under a layered defence.
”We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow." - Lord Palmerston
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]
IMO, from a strategic standpoint I think the T31/Wildcat/NSM/Sea Venom combination is underrated especially in the Littoral.Ron5 wrote: ↑21 Jan 2023, 15:03Hunting what? Fishing boats, pirates, Iranian boat swarms?Poiuytrewq wrote: ↑21 Jan 2023, 10:54 Actually a T31 embarking 2 Wildcats is already a pretty formidable surface hunter without further adaptation
If each T31 embarks 2 Wildcats with LMM and Sea Venom plus 16x NSM, two or three such vessels operating as a group would cause a serious strategic headache for any adversary.
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]
Absolutely, again, let's not forget the very capable duel gun fit too....Poiuytrewq wrote: ↑21 Jan 2023, 19:53IMO, from a strategic standpoint I think the T31/Wildcat/NSM/Sea Venom combination is underrated especially in the Littoral.Ron5 wrote: ↑21 Jan 2023, 15:03Hunting what? Fishing boats, pirates, Iranian boat swarms?Poiuytrewq wrote: ↑21 Jan 2023, 10:54 Actually a T31 embarking 2 Wildcats is already a pretty formidable surface hunter without further adaptation
If each T31 embarks 2 Wildcats with LMM and Sea Venom plus 16x NSM, two or three such vessels operating as a group would cause a serious strategic headache for any adversary.
Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]
Where did you guys get the 16xNSM from? They’ll be lucky to get 8xNSM hand-me-downs from the T23 as they retire…