Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Contains threads on Royal Navy equipment of the past, present and future.

What will be the result of the 'Lighter Frigate' programme?

Programme cancelled, RN down to 14 escorts
51
10%
Programme cancelled & replaced with GP T26
13
3%
A number of heavy OPVs spun as "frigates"
123
25%
An LCS-like modular ship
23
5%
A modernised Type 23
23
5%
A Type 26-lite
68
14%
Less than 5 hulls
22
5%
5 hulls
67
14%
More than 5 hulls
97
20%
 
Total votes: 487

Caribbean
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Caribbean »

Repulse wrote: equally a frigate hull without the kit isn't a real frigate either
I would describe it as a "poorly-equipped" frigate. The real difference is in the hull and it's ability to survive and still operate after taking battle damage. Naval standards are there for a reason.
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
Winston Churchill

Ron5
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Ron5 »

Caribbean wrote:
Repulse wrote: equally a frigate hull without the kit isn't a real frigate either
I would describe it as a "poorly-equipped" frigate. The real difference is in the hull and it's ability to survive and still operate after taking battle damage. Naval standards are there for a reason.
I'd bet a lot that the T31's are nowhere near the T26's in this regard.

Caribbean
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Caribbean »

Ron5 wrote:I'd bet a lot that the T31's are nowhere near the T26's in this regard.
Yes - true - it's all on a scale. A T26 is undoubtedly higher on all three of the Fight, flight (or manoeuvre, if you prefer), float scales than the T31, but likewise the T31 will be further up the scale than an OPV on all three, even one that is reasonably well built, like the RB2s. The RB2s, in turn, are probably further up all three than the RB1s or the Irish OPVs.
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
Winston Churchill

Lord Jim
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Lord Jim »

With the T-31 we have a large hull with less armament that most other countries Corvettes. If the UK wanted to show it can develop a unique class of ship that was exportable they have succeeded, with the RN operating the ships at a minimum level of load out and any export customers amending the design to make it more like a traditional escort. Its roles will be very similar to that of the forward deployed B2 Rivers rather than that of a true escort, and will have to avoid any confrontation with such vessels. The fact that it is FFBNW many additional systems means nothing if those systems are not available to be fitted, and as such could just be a dream of the Admirals as I do not believe any are in the current equipment plan. But there are two SDSRs to be published over this time frame so who knows what will happen.

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Tempest414
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Tempest414 »

Lord Jim wrote:Its roles will be very similar to that of the forward deployed B2 Rivers rather than that of a true escort,
Yes its role will be similar to a deployed B2 however its capability will be 4 times that of a B2

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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Repulse »

For me the T31 is the perfect ship for 2nd tier western navies who are at times globally engaged, but have sceptical political classes or public on defence. I’m thinking specifically the likes of New Zealand and if their appetite increases South Africa and Ireland.
”We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow." - Lord Palmerston

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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Repulse »

Tempest414 wrote:Yes its role will be similar to a deployed B2 however its capability will be 4 times that of a B2
Does that mean it will be taking on new priority requirements, or it’s over specified?

I appreciate that everyone will shout GP frigate / LRG escort, but what I haven’t seen is a clear listing of the requirement and how it maps to five T31s.
”We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow." - Lord Palmerston

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Tempest414
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Tempest414 »

Repulse wrote:Does that mean it will be taking on new priority requirements, or it’s over specified?
For me what it means is a B2 can travel 1000 nm spend time on task and come home where a T-31 can travel 2000nm spend twice as long ( and up to 4 x if Ras'ed ) on task before coming home

A B2 can see 90 nm with its 2D radar a T-31 can see 250 nm with its 3D radar ( some call it a 4D )

A B2 an operate a UAV in support of its task a T-31 can operate a UAV and Wildcat or Merlin in support of its task

Even at the current level of armament T-31 is 200+ times more capable of defending its self

A B2 can project power with the use of its embarked force in boats a T-31 can project power with its helicopter and embarked force using both boat and helicopter

So for me a B2 is good and a T-31 is 3 or 4 times better

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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Repulse »

Tempest414, whilst it is true that the T31 can be resupplied via RAS, I'm not sure I agree with the endurance numbers. The other factor is that a River Class can be resupplied in hundreds of ports EoS, whereas a larger T31 is limited to tens.

Regardless, my point was more about the requirement rather than the capability which I have not problem in agreeing with the broad thrust of your argument.

Still this is a news thread, and we've probably been around this a few times now. I'm still unclear/unconvinced of the requirement within the broader RN context and prioritization, others on here aren't. I suggest we take it over to the Escorts thread if we want to go through it more.
”We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow." - Lord Palmerston

donald_of_tokyo
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by donald_of_tokyo »

Tempest414 wrote:
Repulse wrote:Does that mean it will be taking on new priority requirements, or it’s over specified?
For me what it means is a B2 can travel 1000 nm spend time on task and come home where a T-31 can travel 2000nm spend twice as long ( and up to 4 x if Ras'ed ) on task before coming home

A B2 can see 90 nm with its 2D radar a T-31 can see 250 nm with its 3D radar ( some call it a 4D )

A B2 an operate a UAV in support of its task a T-31 can operate a UAV and Wildcat or Merlin in support of its task

Even at the current level of armament T-31 is 200+ times more capable of defending its self

A B2 can project power with the use of its embarked force in boats a T-31 can project power with its helicopter and embarked force using both boat and helicopter

So for me a B2 is good and a T-31 is 3 or 4 times better
Except for sea going days per hull. River B2 will surely win against T31.

Repulse-san. T31 requirement is written in T31 RFI. It is vague, but written. Operation Research / plan of T31 is not known, I agree. Nether that of River B2 was known, until we see the two ships deployed to Indo-Pacific. Let's see.

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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Repulse »

Thanks donald_of_tokyo, I've replied on the "Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion" thread.
”We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow." - Lord Palmerston

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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Ron5 »

Repulse wrote:whilst it is true that the T31 can be resupplied via RAS
Does anyone know where the RAS gear is on a Type 31 or Iver Huitfeldt? I've studied photo's etc and I can't figure it out.

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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by donald_of_tokyo »

In the middle of hull, (at least in starboard) there is a hole with oil opening. Not sure if IH class has any capability to get dry cargo or ammo, other than vertrep.

Image

Ron5
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Ron5 »

That's great Donald-san, just what I was wanted. There's a picture on the net of a sailor looking out of that hole during a RAS. I couldn't figure what part of the ship he was looking from.

Many thanks :thumbup:

PS of course, now when I look for that picture I find this ..

Image

tomuk
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by tomuk »

Does the RAS 'hatch' and the integral gangway to the right have an impact on fitting an extra boat bay?

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Jensy
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Jensy »

tomuk wrote:Does the RAS 'hatch' and the integral gangway to the right have an impact on fitting an extra boat bay?
From imagery to date, the below included, I cant really see how there could be RAS gear, at least starboard. Because of the asymmetric funnel design, the port side RAS on the IH class is just forward of the funnel.

Image

There's still the ongoing mystery of whether the fourth boat bay, port side, has been deleted. If so, it might well have been to sustain one RAS station.

There are other hatches, forward of the boat bays, but seem to be for life rafts and other safety gear.

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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by tomuk »

Jensy wrote:
There are other hatches, forward forward of the boat bays, but seem to be for life rafts and other safety gear.
Yes I've seen those in pictures on either side, open hatch with life raft, closable hatch, folding gangway, wider RAS hatch. There is also a torpedo tube somewhere.

SD67
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by SD67 »

A couple of Bangladesh based sites are reporting that they’ve done a deal to buy up to 5xT31. It was late on friday so maybe missed the UK news cycle? Semi official announcement by their foreign minister apparently.


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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Ron5 »

Jensy wrote:There's still the ongoing mystery of whether the fourth boat bay, port side, has been deleted.
On the T31 website the number of boat bays is said to vary between 3 & 4 depending on the rest of the ship's configuration.

Well I think that's where I read it :?

My money is on 4 for the RN.

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Poiuytrewq
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Poiuytrewq »

SD67 wrote:A couple of Bangladesh based sites are reporting that they’ve done a deal to buy up to 5xT31.

"The negotiation went on for a long time. This time, we agreed in principle to buy five naval ships. Three of those will be imported from the UK and the two others will be built in our dockyard in Chattogram."
If true massive news for Rosyth.

Maybe we should wait for confirmation from an official source before breaking out the champagne…

BB85
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by BB85 »

Interesting news. I didn't think their defense budget would allow for new build ships but at $125mm a ship if they get a financing package it's probably cheaper buying new when you include servicing costs. The frigate as excellent chances of winning orders from Chile, New Zealand, Malaysia who knows maybe Taiwan will purchase a few too

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Jensy
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Jensy »

SD67 wrote:A couple of Bangladesh based sites are reporting that they’ve done a deal to buy up to 5xT31. It was late on friday so maybe missed the UK news cycle? Semi official announcement by their foreign minister apparently.
Seen a smattering of Bangladeshi posts on social media. All seem to assume it's Type 31.

Not a bad assumption as there's nothing else suitable in production however not a guarantee either.

Not to read too much into the article but mention of fishery protection seems a bit of a stretch for even the lightest armed Type 31. Would also be a significant increase in size and capability from their existing escort fleet.

Also seen talk that they require OPVs, to replace the ex-Island class, and MCMVs. Could the great Ben Wallace garage sale continue with selling off some existing platforms (River B1s, Hunts or Sandowns)?
A further five vessels – HMS Penzance , HMS Pembroke , HMS Grimsby , HMS Bangor, and HMS Shoreham – will become available over the next four years. Janes understands that Bangladesh and Egypt have expressed initial interest.
Link(£): https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news ... s-for-sale

If anything does come to pass its most impressive achievement would be selling to a frequent buyer of Chinese kit, and what that says about our competitiveness and quality.
Poiuytrewq wrote:
Maybe we should wait for confirmation from an official source before breaking out the champagne…
Local single malt surely? :D

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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by SD67 »

A quick google shows Bangladesh spending over 4 billion USD a year on defence - that’s more than NZ. Their economy is booming.

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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by inch »

If true maybe the 5 vessels for Bangladesh might be 3 X RN MCM vessels and Bangladesh building 2 t31 that's if all true , might just be rummers but fingers crossed folks

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