Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Contains threads on Royal Navy equipment of the past, present and future.

What will be the result of the 'Lighter Frigate' programme?

Programme cancelled, RN down to 14 escorts
51
10%
Programme cancelled & replaced with GP T26
13
3%
A number of heavy OPVs spun as "frigates"
123
25%
An LCS-like modular ship
23
5%
A modernised Type 23
23
5%
A Type 26-lite
68
14%
Less than 5 hulls
22
5%
5 hulls
67
14%
More than 5 hulls
97
20%
 
Total votes: 487

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RichardIC
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by RichardIC »

Poiuytrewq wrote:"The negotiation went on for a long time. This time, we agreed in principle to buy five naval ships. Three of those will be imported from the UK and the two others will be built in our dockyard in Chattogram."
If true massive news for Rosyth.
Doesn't mention Type 31 anywhere. Imported could also mean second-hand.

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RichardIC
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by RichardIC »

According to Wiki (I know) the Bangladesh Navy does have a future requirement for six frigates. And it says Arrowhead is available.

However it also says they would all be indigenously produced and there is absolutely no attribution for the Arrowhead reference. Last edit was a couple of weeks ago.

SD67
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by SD67 »

They’re replacing 5 frigates so you’d have to assume they’re not River B1s. The two constructed in BD pretty much have to be T31s. Cannot really see the T23 fleet is shrinking to 8 ...

Ron5
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Ron5 »

SD67 wrote:They’re replacing 5 frigates so you’d have to assume they’re not River B1s. The two constructed in BD pretty much have to be T31s. Cannot really see the T23 fleet is shrinking to 8 ...
... yet.

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Poiuytrewq
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

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jonas
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

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inch
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by inch »

Interesting but still does not say t 31 has been chosen ,see who gets it ,still think the 5 vessels supposed to be agreed with uk are of a smaller class than the frigate ,MCM /opv etc

Jdam
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Jdam »

The mine sweepers we are decommissioning is what someone suggested.

I would be over the moon if it was the Type 31.

Lord Jim
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Lord Jim »

An interesting footnote to one of the photographs in the article. :D
"All modern frigates carry air and surface search radar, guidance radar and active/passive sonars as well as electronic warfare and countermeasure equipment navy.mil.bd"

Ron5
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Ron5 »

Lord Jim wrote:An interesting footnote to one of the photographs in the article. :D
"All modern frigates carry air and surface search radar, guidance radar and active/passive sonars as well as electronic warfare and countermeasure equipment navy.mil.bd"
Oh dear :(

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Tempest414
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Tempest414 »

Lord Jim wrote:An interesting footnote to one of the photographs in the article.
"All modern frigates carry air and surface search radar, guidance radar and active/passive sonars as well as electronic warfare and countermeasure equipment navy.mil.bd"
Lets hope that the MOD/HMG read that then

As a side if the T-31 was to win and Rosyth was to build say two it could lead to build program like so 5 UK T-31 followed by 2 Bangladesh T-31 followed by 5 UK T-32 followed by 2 or 3 RNZN T-32 as the time line seem to work well

jonas
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by jonas »

inch wrote:Interesting but still does not say t 31 has been chosen ,see who gets it ,still think the 5 vessels supposed to be agreed with uk are of a smaller class than the frigate ,MCM /opv etc
Well of course it doesn't say T31 has been chosen, being as no announcement has yet been made.

"We are hopeful about its official commencement or declaration by honourable Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina at the International Fleet Review 2021 that is due in December."

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Tempest414 wrote:could lead to build program like so 5 UK T-31 followed by 2 Bangladesh T-31
Well, not long to wait (if the article is accurate):
"declaration by honourable Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina at the International Fleet Review 2021 that is due in December." [@jonas beat me to it, re: this point]

150-200 crew would probably make the weapon systems fit-out look quite different (and cheaper, too ?).
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Ron5 »

Biggest take away from the story ..

.. they have "honorable" politicians :shock: :shock: :shock:

jonas
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by jonas »

Not seen this before, so apologies if already posted. I wonder if it had anything to do with the Indonesiian decision. As far as Bangladesh is concerned I would think this would be perfect for them. Just saying.

https://www.navalnews.com/event-news/ds ... arrowyard/

jonas
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by jonas »

Ron5 wrote:Biggest take away from the story ..

.. they have "honorable" politicians :shock: :shock: :shock:
They are obviously following the example of the ' Mother of all Parliaments' :shifty:

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RichardIC
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by RichardIC »

£100m investment for maritime electronic warfare capabilities
Defence Equipment and Support (DE&S) have awarded a £100-million contract to a Babcock-led partnership with Elbit Systems UK and QinetiQ to deliver cutting-edge electronic warfare (EW) systems to the Royal Navy.

The EW technology will allow more simultaneous detection and identification of radio signals over a greater frequency range than current capabilities. This will aid faster operational decision-making, enhanced situational awareness and anti-ship missile defence capability.

Around 170 jobs are expected to be created and sustained across the UK by the 13-year contract, mainly in the South West of England, ranging from manufacturing to software development roles.

Defence Secretary of State Ben Wallace said:
“In a world of rapidly evolving threats, these enhancements will upgrade the Royal Navy with pioneering radar detection capabilities maintaining the UK’s operational advantage at sea.

“The £100-million investment with key industry partners will underpin vital defence outputs whilst supporting jobs and investment in the South-West of England.”

This is the first phase of a £500-million Maritime Electronics Warfare Programme (MEWP) to deliver battle-winning operational advantage on Type 45, 26 and 31 frigates, as well as the Queen Elizabeth class aircraft carriers.

Senior Responsible Owner for the programme, Royal Navy Commodore Steve Prest, said:
“The ability to understand and exploit the increasingly complex electro-magnetic environment is critical for the operational success of the Royal Navy.

“This technology will deliver a generational leap in our electronic warfare capabilities to ensure we maintain the operational advantage we need well into the 21st century.”

Rear Admiral Jim Higham, DE&S Director Ship Support, said:
“I am delighted to have achieved contract award and look forward to working with Babcock, Elbit and QinetiQ. Now the real work begins - delivering this crucial capability to the frontline to time and cost and supporting the men and women of the Royal Navy in what they deliver for our nation.”

Babcock, Elbit and QinetiQ will work as one team with DE&S, the Navy and Dstl (Defence Science and Technology Laboratories) to design, manufacture, deliver and integrate the capability before providing in-service support for the duration of the contract.

Strengthening maritime capabilities ensures the Royal Navy are spearheading innovation and are prepared for new and emerging threats. This ambition, outlined in the Defence Command Paper, is reinforced by the £24 billion increase in defence spending over the next four years.
bUt It'S juSt a LarGe oPv!

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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Repulse »

RichardIC wrote:bUt It'S juSt a LarGe oPv!
I think we all think it can be and should be more, but investment in EW by itself does not give it a “battle-winning operational advantage”. A still strongly believe a clearer /updated set of requirements would help us all judge better the T31 capabilities vs the need.
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Lord Jim
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Lord Jim »

So our naval vessels are going to have decent EW systems with which to defend themselves. They better have because they have little or no up to date offensive capabilities, especially if you discount their helicopters with a medium range AShM.

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Poiuytrewq
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Poiuytrewq »

Tempest414 wrote:….5 UK T-31 followed by 2 Bangladesh T-31 followed by 5 UK T-32 followed by 2 or 3 RNZN T-32 ….
Here is the dilemma facing every country trying to export naval vessels.

In the UK’s case what is the national priority, export success or RN requirements?

Adding 3x Bangladeshi T31’s to Rosyth’s build schedule would slow down the delivery date of the T32’s by around FIVE YEARS unless Babcock smash up the drumbeat. Clearly unacceptable.

Obviously none of this is confirmed yet but if T31 export orders do start to materialise for Rosyth, the case for extra T26’s and/or a T32 based on a T26 hull becomes much more likely IMO.

Jdam
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Jdam »

We have already proven we will take a gap in capability, now a gap in capability to export ships? I don't think they would think twice about that.

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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by jedibeeftrix »

Re: Bangladesh

I still don't like the T31, but that doesn't mean someone else won't feel differently...?

i.e. in-line with the shipbuilding plan for a short-service life to keep the production/design throughput healthy - sell them off after five years as "fully shaken down" products, and as a happy coincidence move more quickly to a much more appropriate T32 derived low-end frigate fleet.

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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Tempest414 »

Poiuytrewq wrote:Adding 3x Bangladeshi T31’s to Rosyth’s build schedule would slow down the delivery date of the T32’s by around FIVE YEARS unless Babcock smash up the drumbeat. Clearly unacceptable.
Why five years we know the New frigate shed at Rosyth can hold two hulls at the same time so once the first five T-31's are built they could build a export hull along side a T-32 hull they could have up to 4 hulls in the water for final fitting lets not forget type 32 is a added plus

As I have said in the past the best out come for me would be a firm order for two batches of 3 Type 26 and two batches of 4 Type 83 with a firm time time line placed at BAE . add to this a firm order for 5 type 32 and 3 SSS placed at Rosyth with SSS blocks built at Rosyth , CL and Appledore this would followed by MRSS or what ever it is called by then

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Poiuytrewq
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by Poiuytrewq »

Tempest414 wrote:Rosyth can hold two hulls at the same time so once the first five T-31's are built they could build a export hull along side a T-32 hull they
It really depends on how fast you really believe Babcock could build 8 Frigates (T31) effectively starting from scratch.

Even if Babcock maximises efficiency it will take at least a decade before the steel can be cut on the T32’s. In real terms that results in the first T32 commissioning around 2034/2035. What if Babcock hoover up another three or four T31 Frigate orders over that decade? Would RN have to wait until 2040 for the first T32?.

It’s no wonder HMG are pushing so hard at T31 export, with multiple UK built export T31’s the T32 budget line can be deferred almost indefinitely.

If building additional T26’s isn’t an option then jettisoning the RN T31’s onto the export market to be replaced by T32’s constructed in the early 2030’s seems like the obvious solution.
Tempest414 wrote:…3 Type 26 and two batches of 4 Type 83
If Rosyth starts to get bogged down by export orders (yes, unlikely, I know) then RN and BAE have a massive opportunity to swiftly change gear and arrive at a much more agreeable destination.

If BAE are not working on a highly capable but cost effective T32, derived from the lengthy T26 design process then they really should be.

The T83 is so far away it’s difficult to know in which direction that programme will ultimately lead but with the T26 currently under way the priority must be to get as many hulls into the water as possible.

A couple of extra dedicated TAPS Frigates must be the bare minimum on top of the 8 already planned.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Type 31 Frigate (Inspiration Class) [News Only]

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Poiuytrewq wrote:It’s no wonder HMG are pushing so hard at T31 export, with multiple UK built export T31’s the T32 budget line can be deferred almost indefinitely.

If building additional T26’s isn’t an option then jettisoning the RN T31’s onto the export market to be replaced by T32’s constructed in the early 2030’s seems like the obvious solution.
Are you sure :D that you are not a Treasury official, in a cloak (but not wielding a dagger)?
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