Vanguard Class Nuclear Ballistic Missile Submarine (SSBN) (RN)

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Re: Vanguard Class Nuclear Ballistic Missile Submarine (SSBN) (RN)

Post by Scimitar54 »

Just like the way the rest of our “defences” are being mismanaged. :idea:

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Re: Vanguard Class Nuclear Ballistic Missile Submarine (SSBN) (RN)

Post by Bring Deeps »

One of the class is reported to have been 'out of the water' in Faslane for some time. Does anyone know what the problem is? With Vanguard still stuck in Devonport it sounds like the UK CASD is hanging from a thread.

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Re: Vanguard Class Nuclear Ballistic Missile Submarine (SSBN) (RN)

Post by SKB »

Maybe they lost the ignition key.
:mrgreen:

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Re: Vanguard Class Nuclear Ballistic Missile Submarine (SSBN) (RN)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Bring Deeps wrote:sounds like the UK CASD is hanging from a thread.
Time to get serious about money; both about upfront investment and cost to run, over the life
... actually, when you look at it that way:cheap, as an ultimate guarantor

Next: what else can we afford? After the double-whammy will have worked its way through
- I will leave the ideas for some other thread
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Re: Vanguard Class Nuclear Ballistic Missile Submarine (SSBN) (RN)

Post by Bring Deeps »

If HMS Astute is on the Faslane ship-lift presumably the SSBN previously using it is back in the water (if not necessarily sea worthy).



Still no news on when HMS Vanguard might return from its staycation in Devon.

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Re: Vanguard Class Nuclear Ballistic Missile Submarine (SSBN) (RN)

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Re: Vanguard Class Nuclear Ballistic Missile Submarine (SSBN) (RN)

Post by 2HeadsBetter »

Yes I know it's a tabloid but at least no paywall.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/l ... e-22841970

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Re: Vanguard Class Nuclear Ballistic Missile Submarine (SSBN) (RN)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

That's why we need an extra boat. If it's not whisky on the rocks (that was expensive! ), then the white stuff sets in (no, not talking about white Xmas... on Cocoa Beach :?: ).
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)


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Re: Vanguard Class Nuclear Ballistic Missile Submarine (SSBN) (RN)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

ArmChairCivvy wrote:That's why we need an extra boat.
On a more serious note, the research briefing paper (this year's commonslibraryBRIEFING PAPERNumber 8166, updated 19 June 2020)
to the Parliament states
"Extension of the Vanguard class – the 2010 decision to keep the Vanguard class in service for a further four years to 2028 was expected to incur additional costs of approximately £1.2 - £1.4 billion.[37] However, savings achieved from the Submarine Enterprise Performance Programme (SEPP) were also expected to be used to offset that additional expenditure.[38] In November 2015 the MOD confirmed that the marginal costs of a further extension to the life of the Vanguard class, into the early 2030s, “would be contained within the existing running cost of the deterrent”.[39]Any further extension to the life of the Vanguard class beyond current assumptions would be costly"
- that containing of the costs statement is easy to make as the swing is between 3 and 6 % of the defence budget and we are currently in the upper band, so the expectation is for the rest of the decade to be lower, thus creating "space"
- however more critical is the in-service date of the first of Dreadnought class
- keeping the "V-force" running and getting the new boats into water (not just built) are intertwined through reactor production. A bottle neck for easing of which RR was allocated almost half a bn [The Core Production Capability programme. Both the CPC project and MENSA are examined in the NAO’s latest report, Managing infrastructure projects on nuclear-regulated sites, HC19, Session 2019-20 ]
- the 2028 that the quote starts with did not come out of the thin air and could be treated as a conservative estimate for the first V-boat 'falling off'
- is it likely that we will be down to 3 boats for about 3 years? Or rather, how likely is it? Inside information, with a red stamp on it...
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Re: Vanguard Class Nuclear Ballistic Missile Submarine (SSBN) (RN)

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Re: Vanguard Class Nuclear Ballistic Missile Submarine (SSBN) (RN)

Post by BlueD954 »

Also see this thread/ post

viewtopic.php?p=116734#p116734

Are these sonars also for Vanguard SSBNs?

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Re: Vanguard Class Nuclear Ballistic Missile Submarine (SSBN) (RN)

Post by BlueD954 »

BlueD954 wrote:Also see this thread/ post

viewtopic.php?p=116734#p116734

Are these sonars also for Vanguard SSBNs?
https://www.deagel.com/Sensor%20Systems ... 54/a001182

https://www.sea.co.uk/simulation-traini ... placement/

I see they are


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Re: Vanguard Class Nuclear Ballistic Missile Submarine (SSBN) (RN)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Just proves that double crewing
"yesterday [when] a new crew were due to take over."
is as important as having the boat in working order.
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Re: Vanguard Class Nuclear Ballistic Missile Submarine (SSBN) (RN)

Post by R686 »

https://www.9news.com.au/world/new-brit ... 40fba0442e

Daunting nuclear war task new British PM must embark on

I didn’t realise that the PM had to make new orders for the boomers every time of a change of a Prime Minister

Just thought it would have been a defence plan just updated overtime

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Re: Vanguard Class Nuclear Ballistic Missile Submarine (SSBN) (RN)

Post by SKB »

RN: Bombers. USN: Boomers.

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Re: Vanguard Class Nuclear Ballistic Missile Submarine (SSBN) (RN)

Post by sunstersun »

Carriers are sexy, but I'd rather have more subs.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20 ... ys-future/

Ben Wallace: Submarines rather than ships could be the Royal Navy's future

Defence Secretary has asked naval chiefs to assess the 'balance' between surface and submarine fleets as he launches a major review

China is the overwhelming naval threat. Russia is basically irrelevant as a naval threat outside of their submarines.

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Re: Vanguard Class Nuclear Ballistic Missile Submarine (SSBN) (RN)

Post by Jake1992 »

sunstersun wrote: 26 Sep 2022, 21:00 Carriers are sexy, but I'd rather have more subs.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20 ... ys-future/

Ben Wallace: Submarines rather than ships could be the Royal Navy's future

Defence Secretary has asked naval chiefs to assess the 'balance' between surface and submarine fleets as he launches a major review

China is the overwhelming naval threat. Russia is basically irrelevant as a naval threat outside of their submarines.
If the increase being spoken about comes to pass we could have both even with inflation and the drop in the pound a budget of £100bn per year by 2030 could see us over the next 20 years ( which is what is really needed to rebuild the forces as a whole ) have an extra £845bn odd on defence, that’d be roughly £285bn on procurement.

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