UK Defence Forum

SW1 wrote: ↑14 Nov 2022, 08:49 All fast jet sqns comprise 10-12 a/c. But when they deploy as a sqn, 8 a/c is what is sent. It’s been that way for decades.

I think what you mean is that once, a squadron was comprised of 12 active aircraft, with another 4 or so in maintenance. Now, the aircraft in maintenance are counted as part of the squadron strength.

Caribbean wrote: ↑14 Nov 2022, 11:45

SW1 wrote: ↑14 Nov 2022, 08:49 All fast jet sqns comprise 10-12 a/c. But when they deploy as a sqn, 8 a/c is what is sent. It’s been that way for decades.

I think what you mean is that once, a squadron was comprised of 12 active aircraft, with another 4 or so in maintenance. Now, the aircraft in maintenance are counted as part of the squadron strength.

The notional 12 a/c in the squadron in peacetime is to generate the required number of combat ready pilots. As you rightly say covers day to day maintenance missing/lack off spares ect.

8 a/c has been the standard sqn deployment at the flag exercises and elsewhere tried and tested for years. Usually a/c sent is representative of what the flight program the engineers need to have aircraft ready for. Even the tornadoes in the iraq war 60 odd aircrew were sent but only 30 a/c.

HMS Invincible was deployed to the Falklands in 1982 with eight Sea Harriers. HMS Hermes went with twelve, which rose to fifteen.

With only deploying small numbers on carrier with a lot larger capacity and issues with other carrier could the powers that be and treasury say you don't even use one carrier to its fullest why have 2 ,sell one off ,I could defo see that coming down the line tbh sometime , luckily we only building f35 numbers but if mod dick about small department that is what will happen

Deployment FFS predictive text

SW1 wrote: ↑14 Nov 2022, 08:49 All fast jet sqns comprise 10-12 a/c. But when they deploy as a sqn, 8 a/c is what is sent. It’s been that way for decades.

All RAF squadrons ....

Ron5 wrote: ↑14 Nov 2022, 14:15

SW1 wrote: ↑14 Nov 2022, 08:49 All fast jet sqns comprise 10-12 a/c. But when they deploy as a sqn, 8 a/c is what is sent. It’s been that way for decades.

All RAF squadrons ....

Well ok the RN sea harrier ones were smaller and sent less maybe you’d prefer that.

TBH we need to stop talking about squadrons and talk air-wings what we need is a date for a fully operational air-wing of X fixed wing and Y rotors on our carriers

I just wish that we could deploy more F35. With the present procurement numbers it's going to be like this for several years . But by the later part of this decade we should be able to have enough aircraft to properly equip the carriers.

Falklands SHAR numbers were more based on what was available, at date of sailing, rather than any specific sqdn size. 20 were sent initially so 8/12 reflected carrier size more than anything. I recall a lot of talk prior to QE build, that she would operate 24 F35, 2 sqdns in peacetime.

I seem to remember 24 in peacetime norm aswell, maybe it was before the 2010 sdsr, then the crap hit the fan... glad we have the QEC though, even if it taking longer to work up aircraft than wanted by the RN, but as most of the time bean counters rule - except when in the politicians need them...

Digger22 wrote: ↑14 Nov 2022, 20:42 Falklands SHAR numbers were more based on what was available, at date of sailing, rather than any specific sqdn size. 20 were sent initially so 8/12 reflected carrier size more than anything. I recall a lot of talk prior to QE build, that she would operate 24 F35, 2 sqdns in peacetime.

The 8-jet squadron was still pretty typical for Invincible-class air wings, though. You would regularly see them deploy with about 8 at a time and 16 on high capacity. For the size of the newer ships a larger complement would be expected (16-24 standard) but this is a procurement issue primarily.

There is a problem of lack of F-35B pilots, currently 33, that also needs to be addressed, which will impact on the order rate. Thursday's Autumn statement and the March budget will also have an impact on the order rate and additional orders. Another impact is the percentage maintenance of availability of F-35B's and those required for the OCU and training.

There are two operational roles for F-35B, one for the carrier role, the other for RAF land based operational requirements (which will stay until sufficient Tempests aircraft are acquired).

This look interesting

A Sea Islander I would love to see the landing

If only Eric 'Winkle' Brown were still around, bet he'd have a go at it, even at 90 odd years of age.

There's nothing new under the sun!

Timmymagic wrote: ↑02 Dec 2020, 23:33

Jensy wrote:however it shows what could be achieved on the QEC with its far larger deck area, with regards UAVs and possibly something like a BN Defender....

BN Defender wouldn't need arresting cables. They landed and took off from HMS Hermes in 1968, with the less powerful piston engines.

See page 20..

http://www.ivanberrymandirect.com/BNAPS ... r_2017.pdf

There was a different radar equipped version as well...arguably better looking...



Back to QE...hope there will be some good pictures coming out of Oslo on Monday...

Port of Oslo webcam feed....HMS Queen Elizabeth coming in now...

https://www.cruisingearth.com/port-webc ... o-norway2/

Does anyone know when the next scheduled deployment of a QNLZ class with foreign F35Bs is going to be?

Bring Deeps wrote: ↑21 Nov 2022, 19:56 Does anyone know when the next scheduled deployment of a QNLZ class with foreign F35Bs is going to be?

I thought the global CSGs were going to be every 2 years, and until we can muster more than eight F-35 for a TAG I hope the USN will help plug the gap. I assume PoW was slotted for that deployment? Maybe not now...

hovematlot wrote: ↑22 Nov 2022, 15:26

Bring Deeps wrote: ↑21 Nov 2022, 19:56 Does anyone know when the next scheduled deployment of a QNLZ class with foreign F35Bs is going to be?

I thought the global CSGs were going to be every 2 years, and until we can muster more than eight F-35 for a TAG I hope the USN will help plug the gap. I assume PoW was slotted for that deployment? Maybe not now...

Why not scrap the carriers and have the USN fill the complete gap? It's not like it hasn't been doing that for the last few decades

Timmymagic wrote: ↑19 Nov 2022, 14:37

There was a different radar equipped version as well...arguably better looking...



Back to QE...hope there will be some good pictures coming out of Oslo on Monday...

This takes me back to my youth - TEMI was Thorn EMI's private venture aircraft with a Searchwater MTI radar. DLRA (Directorate Electronics Radar Airborne) was the MoD's CASTOR TDP aircraft alongside Canberra WT326 to develop what eventually became the ASTOR or Sentinel programme