Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Contains threads on Royal Navy equipment of the past, present and future.
SW1
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by SW1 »

Jdam wrote: 11 Dec 2021, 21:36 Did we ever do anything like CSG21 with the Invincible's?

Orient 92, ocean wave 97

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

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PhillyJ
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by PhillyJ »

PWLS going for a half pirouette at 0930 this morning if anyone out and about Gosport side today. Nipper home on Christmas leave now so will miss out on the fun.

He has been on dishwasher duty for the last few weeks as the representative from the Warfare dept rota, seems a nice job to have as you can finish up once they've all been cleaned up after breakfast!

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SKB
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

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Image

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

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Zero W.O.D. ! :mrgreen:

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SKB
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

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Bring Deeps
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Bring Deeps »

Not a great photo but the arrival of Corgi's QNLZ enabled a comparison with the previous HMS Prince of Wales as both models are to the same scale.

Corgi model not bad and comes with the added bonus that F35s are fixed to the deck which is a foolproof way of avoiding engine cover related accidents.
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

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Shows how broad the flight deck is compared to POW ! Quite surprised there are not more F35 on deck, would be good to have a few merlins aswell - but i do like the additions of Chinocks

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Timmymagic »

I hope news likes this manages to suppress some of the 'Should have been CATOBAR crowd'....the reality of a rather less capable ship seems to have surprised French commentators as well....seems like you can't get a Nimitz equivalent on that tonnage after all...I suspect the first of many disappointments to come.

$1.3bn for 2 EMALS cats and AAG...2 sets for CVF would have increased overall costs by 1/3rd (and bear in mind that PoW came in at c£2bn in reality)....and thats before you get an additional set for shoreside training/maintenance, huge amounts of additional personnel for the lifetime of the ship, spares, support, upgrades....and then the big cost...buying an aircraft that makes it all worthwhile...E-2D, which would have cost an additional $4bn for 8. And again thats before all the long term costs are factored in....


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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by NickC »

Of interest tweet from Think Defence re Lockheed to design new F-35 variant for mystery customer
Understand this is for the UK, developing a catapult version of the F-35B so it can also operate with French aircraft carriers
Alert 5
@alert5
· Dec 29, 2021
Lockheed Martin to design and develop F-35 variant for foreign customer - http://alert5.com/2021/12/29/lockheed-m ... -customer/
1:59 PM · Dec 29, 2021·Twitter Web App
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/lockhee ... -customer/

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by dmereifield »

NickC wrote: 02 Jan 2022, 15:45 Of interest tweet from Think Defence re Lockheed to design new F-35 variant for mystery customer
Understand this is for the UK, developing a catapult version of the F-35B so it can also operate with French aircraft carriers
Alert 5
@alert5
· Dec 29, 2021
Lockheed Martin to design and develop F-35 variant for foreign customer - http://alert5.com/2021/12/29/lockheed-m ... -customer/
1:59 PM · Dec 29, 2021·Twitter Web App
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/lockhee ... -customer/
How on Earth could that be a UK priority? Unless the UK is planning on adding a smaller catapult for UAVs and F35Bs to the QE class, how does it make any sense?

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Jdam »

That makes zero sense, lets forget the fact there already is a catapult version of the F-35 which should be able to work on the French carrier, the F-35 is able to operate on America-class, which has no ramp so why cant the F-35B work on the French flat top with out modification!?!?

That is just cant be true, we have so many other things money needs spending on right now :wtf:

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by SKB »

Sounds like an early April Fool's Day joke or clickbait. I doubt CdeG has the deck coatings to allow an F-35B to land vertically either.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by serge750 »

Didn't the MOD release a request last year for a smaller catapult ? ( something to do with unmanned vehicles ) seem to remember a 2023 time frame for information - or was i dreaming that ? sure their was a discussion many pages back - will have a look later to satisfy my curiosity when i have more time...

Page 513 about a smalish launch & recovery system....

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Defiance »

Jdam wrote: 02 Jan 2022, 19:16 That makes zero sense, lets forget the fact there already is a catapult version of the F-35 which should be able to work on the French carrier, the F-35 is able to operate on America-class, which has no ramp so why cant the F-35B work on the French flat top with out modification!?!?
F-35B still has to point its nozzle a bit downwards still which probably causes some mischief with the catapults. Probably doesn't do the deck surface any good either as it'll get a lot more grief from a 'glancing' F-35B exhaust compared to what it usually experiences with Rafale.

Still though, sounds like a recipe to make a UK F-35B that flies slower, carries less and runs out of range quicker.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by serge750 »

I think lockheed martin has just been given $49m and will come back & say "we have just developed a F35C-uk" but put some more stipes on it ... :lolno:

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Jdam »

Defiance wrote: 02 Jan 2022, 19:42
Jdam wrote: 02 Jan 2022, 19:16 That makes zero sense, lets forget the fact there already is a catapult version of the F-35 which should be able to work on the French carrier, the F-35 is able to operate on America-class, which has no ramp so why cant the F-35B work on the French flat top with out modification!?!?
F-35B still has to point its nozzle a bit downwards still which probably causes some mischief with the catapults. Probably doesn't do the deck surface any good either as it'll get a lot more grief from a 'glancing' F-35B exhaust compared to what it usually experiences with Rafale.

Still though, sounds like a recipe to make a UK F-35B that flies slower, carries less and runs out of range quicker.
Modifying the French carrier with a section of protective coating must be far cheaper than developing this F-35B/C.

Like you said its just going to be a worst of both worlds.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by SW1 »

Doesnt take much to get the naval bods on the end of a hook it would seem.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Scimitar54 »

How about an F35C, but with STOVL capability ? (Rotatable Jet Pipe and Lift Fan) and/or an arrester hook. :lol:

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by KiwiMuzz »

F35B STOVLFFBNWCATOBAR

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by serge750 »

KiwiMuzz :lolno: :lolno: :lolno: :lolno: :lolno:

Why on earth bother with a B/C ???? :crazy:

The tail hook might get in the way when vectoring the nozzle downwards, ( unless its detachable depending on the mission ? edit + just realized, they could lower it in a VL mode anyway -D'OH :oops: ) but as the C has a bigger wing that should mean more fuel than the B version + bigger bomb bays

Just bite the bullet buy 30 F35C + 4 hawkeye & convert QE to full CATOBAR, whilst leaving POW as the back-up STOVL/LPH multi-role strike carrier :thumbup:

To "save" money though the gov would probably go the STOBAR route - like the indians - i read on twitter today that their rafaels are going to start ski-jump tests next week?

I also read some where the C version was to heavy to land on the CdeG ?

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Jdam »

serge750 wrote: 02 Jan 2022, 22:39 Just bite the bullet buy 30 F35C + 4 hawkeye & convert QE to full CATOBAR, whilst leaving POW as the back-up STOVL/LPH multi-role strike carrier :thumbup:

To "save" money though the gov would probably go the STOBAR route - like the indians - i read on twitter today that their rafaels are going to start ski-jump tests next week?
Got to disagree with you there I will always take 2 STOVL carriers over 1 CATOBAR carrier.

I dont like STOBAR either as its seem to be the worse of both systems (heavy aircraft with no assist to launch them)

It is an interesting problem going forward, we got so much bang for our buck with QE and POW that should we ever upgrade them to CATOBAR it wouldn't be that much more to build a 3rd carrier. (This maybe a bit unrealistic with start up costs and so on) Then the question becomes what would you rather have a 3rd carier or 2 CATOBAR carrier. :D

For me personally we have the right choice for the UK and if we really want to invest in the carriers going forward maybe the MV-22 would be a better choice, have an AEW module, air to air refueling and we could use it for carrier on board delivery.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by wargame_insomniac »

I like the suggestion of buying the MV22 far more than the options of either trying to get a new F35 variant which sounds the worst of both worlds or trying to retrofit CATOBAR retrospectively after the carrier construction was finished.

It is such a shame that 2008 financual crisis, amongst many other things, led to such muddled thinking from the then government over what to do with carriers.

If the MV22 can be operated from the forthcoming Multi Role Support Ships as well as the carriers, that would give us more options with deploying the Littoral Strike Groups.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by serge750 »

Jdam wrote: 03 Jan 2022, 12:53
serge750 wrote: 02 Jan 2022, 22:39 Just bite the bullet buy 30 F35C + 4 hawkeye & convert QE to full CATOBAR, whilst leaving POW as the back-up STOVL/LPH multi-role strike carrier :thumbup:

To "save" money though the gov would probably go the STOBAR route - like the indians - i read on twitter today that their rafaels are going to start ski-jump tests next week?
Got to disagree with you there I will always take 2 STOVL carriers over 1 CATOBAR carrier.

I dont like STOBAR either as its seem to be the worse of both systems (heavy aircraft with no assist to launch them)

It is an interesting problem going forward, we got so much bang for our buck with QE and POW that should we ever upgrade them to CATOBAR it wouldn't be that much more to build a 3rd carrier. (This maybe a bit unrealistic with start up costs and so on) Then the question becomes what would you rather have a 3rd carier or 2 CATOBAR carrier. :D

For me personally we have the right choice for the UK and if we really want to invest in the carriers going forward maybe the MV-22 would be a better choice, have an AEW module, air to air refueling and we could use it for carrier on board delivery.
Sorry i meant keep BOTH but convert QE to CATOBAR & keep POW as a STOVL/LHP multi role carrier if they are really interested in cross decking with the french, personally im not for the idea if it takes away money just for show, but hay ho

But as you say what we have now is really good, if we could get a system like the Hawkeye in either a Osprey type conversion or UCAV stol that would make the QEC even better !!!

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Defiance »

tbh the idea is so batshit insane it might just be BS

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