Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion
Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion
Beat me... Was just gonna post this.
Can't see why the Navy has to pay for it not being built correctly?
Can't see why the Navy has to pay for it not being built correctly?
-
- Senior Member
- Posts: 1716
- Joined: 13 Jul 2015, 05:10
-
- Donator
- Posts: 219
- Joined: 27 May 2015, 21:06
Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion
Under English contract law if you know there is a problem with something but you accept it anyway you usually lose the right to seek compensation later. If you change your mind the longer you wait before claiming breach of contract the harder it gets.
POW was commissioned in December 2019 so waiting nearly 4 years before trying to get compensation is going to kill your chances of success.
If the RN knew there was a problem, given the profile of the ship, it is likely that the decision to accept the vessel would have been taken at the highest level. I don't suppose we will know for sure until the papers are released in 30+ years time.
-
- Senior Member
- Posts: 2762
- Joined: 03 Aug 2016, 20:29
Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion
Was there ever amy doubt....
- These users liked the author dmereifield for the post:
- Ron5
Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion
I boils down to when the problem was know before or after accepting considering the sister ship does not have the problemBring Deeps wrote: ↑18 Mar 2023, 16:43Under English contract law if you know there is a problem with something but you accept it anyway you usually lose the right to seek compensation later. If you change your mind the longer you wait before claiming breach of contract the harder it gets.
POW was commissioned in December 2019 so waiting nearly 4 years before trying to get compensation is going to kill your chances of success.
If the RN knew there was a problem, given the profile of the ship, it is likely that the decision to accept the vessel would have been taken at the highest level. I don't suppose we will know for sure until the papers are released in 30+ years time.
Just trying to rack the ole grey matter, didn't QE have some sort of seal problem in trials or was that POW?
Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion
Do we know if FCASW might be capable of F35 integration? I’m anticipating a high level stand off anti shipping and land attack weapon - which it sounds like needs to be resolved with SRVL…Timmymagic wrote: ↑14 Mar 2023, 14:09This is true. Plenty of margin even in the Tropics at present. With the decision to remove Storm Shadow from the integration list 10+ years ago the real need for SRVL dropped away. Current UK Max weapons load is around 5,500lbs, with a future max of c6,500lb's when all Block IV weapons arrive. Thats still within VL limits with some fuel burned off, even in the Tropics.Ron5 wrote: ↑12 Mar 2023, 13:25 You understand wrong. Currently vertical landing with a full weapons load (fuel would be dumped) isn't a problem. It might become one in the future with the heavier weapons in the pipeline but even then it would only be in the hottest of climates. With the expectation of engine thrust increases, that too might turn out to be unnecessary.
The only reason we would need SRVL eventually is when FCASW and external tanks arrive, or if the UK purchases weapons with higher weight (like JDAM 1,000lb). But even then the chances of an aircraft being launched with the exact payload that max's weight is probably highly unlikely. SRVL is very much about future proofing, but I suspect that the RN is quite relaxed about the slow pace of it.
Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion
That's the plan.Dobbo wrote: ↑19 Mar 2023, 08:19Do we know if FCASW might be capable of F35 integration? I’m anticipating a high level stand off anti shipping and land attack weapon - which it sounds like needs to be resolved with SRVL…Timmymagic wrote: ↑14 Mar 2023, 14:09This is true. Plenty of margin even in the Tropics at present. With the decision to remove Storm Shadow from the integration list 10+ years ago the real need for SRVL dropped away. Current UK Max weapons load is around 5,500lbs, with a future max of c6,500lb's when all Block IV weapons arrive. Thats still within VL limits with some fuel burned off, even in the Tropics.Ron5 wrote: ↑12 Mar 2023, 13:25 You understand wrong. Currently vertical landing with a full weapons load (fuel would be dumped) isn't a problem. It might become one in the future with the heavier weapons in the pipeline but even then it would only be in the hottest of climates. With the expectation of engine thrust increases, that too might turn out to be unnecessary.
The only reason we would need SRVL eventually is when FCASW and external tanks arrive, or if the UK purchases weapons with higher weight (like JDAM 1,000lb). But even then the chances of an aircraft being launched with the exact payload that max's weight is probably highly unlikely. SRVL is very much about future proofing, but I suspect that the RN is quite relaxed about the slow pace of it.
Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion
Could the F35 carry an FCASW if it if such a size that the VLS model ends up filling a strike length MK41?Ron5 wrote: ↑19 Mar 2023, 13:16That's the plan.Dobbo wrote: ↑19 Mar 2023, 08:19Do we know if FCASW might be capable of F35 integration? I’m anticipating a high level stand off anti shipping and land attack weapon - which it sounds like needs to be resolved with SRVL…Timmymagic wrote: ↑14 Mar 2023, 14:09This is true. Plenty of margin even in the Tropics at present. With the decision to remove Storm Shadow from the integration list 10+ years ago the real need for SRVL dropped away. Current UK Max weapons load is around 5,500lbs, with a future max of c6,500lb's when all Block IV weapons arrive. Thats still within VL limits with some fuel burned off, even in the Tropics.Ron5 wrote: ↑12 Mar 2023, 13:25 You understand wrong. Currently vertical landing with a full weapons load (fuel would be dumped) isn't a problem. It might become one in the future with the heavier weapons in the pipeline but even then it would only be in the hottest of climates. With the expectation of engine thrust increases, that too might turn out to be unnecessary.
The only reason we would need SRVL eventually is when FCASW and external tanks arrive, or if the UK purchases weapons with higher weight (like JDAM 1,000lb). But even then the chances of an aircraft being launched with the exact payload that max's weight is probably highly unlikely. SRVL is very much about future proofing, but I suspect that the RN is quite relaxed about the slow pace of it.
Appreciate the VLS model will be smaller, and that it won’t fit internally, but we are talking about what is likely to be a very large weapon…
-
- Donator
- Posts: 3243
- Joined: 07 May 2015, 23:57
Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion
It will be the same missile in VLS, Canister, air launched and sub launched. The only differences will be the addition of a rocket booster for zero speed launch. Tomahawk and Storm Shadow have exactly the same weight without boosters (2,900 lbs). Expect it to be between that size and JASSM-ER (not the XR/JASSM-ERB2).
Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion
Apparently a CSG could deploy to the IndoPacific region in 4 weeks. I wonder if that’s just stating the art of the possible or if it’s a planning requirement.
https://questions-statements.parliament ... -27/hl6890
https://questions-statements.parliament ... -27/hl6890
”We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow." - Lord Palmerston
Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion
Repulse wrote: ↑15 Apr 2023, 08:07 Apparently a CSG could deploy to the IndoPacific region in 4 weeks. I wonder if that’s just stating the art of the possible or if it’s a planning requirement.
https://questions-statements.parliament ... -27/hl6890
More likely the art of possible considering the need for escorts from indo pacific nations to help out.
I think it might be something more of a planned occurrence. The RN has to many commitments to sail alone without support from others in the IndoPacfic area let alone the SCS
- These users liked the author R686 for the post (total 2):
- Ron5 • wargame_insomniac
Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... -yard.html
Britain's £3.2 billion aircraft carrier HMS Prince of Wales has been reduced to acting as a scrap-yard. Essential pieces of equipment are being ripped out of the stricken warship, a move that raises questions over its long-term future.
The UK's second carrier has been in dry dock since breaking down off Portsmouth in August 2022.
Now Navy top brass have begun stripping the carrier – a process known as 'cannibalisation' – which will render HMS Prince of Wales inoperable for much longer. Lift chains, which allow fighter jets to be raised from below deck, electrical systems and sections of the ship's gas turbines have been taken out.
The Mail on Sunday can report for the first time today that the warship's port propeller also needs to be replaced as it is suffering from the same issues. HMS Prince of Wales – launched in 2017 – is expected to spend at least a year in dock due to the additional workload.
Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion
Is the mail going To go down the carriers are useless and a drip ,drip slow campaign to sell one ,as said by the labour oppsition leader about not sure tilt to Asia, could be lining up to sell one ,or giving anough bad press to pubic ,that no dissent when do ,that's my take on this ,but the navy and the pMOD eople in charge have definitely done nothing to help their course
Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion
Essential read about state of PoW and the truth vs media stories.
TL:DR
. Propeller loss happened. Oof. not necessarily uncommon.
. MoD merged this emergency repair docking and a scheduled refit together.
. PoW giving tiny amount of parts to QE so she can maintain readiness while new parts being manufactured.
. "ct. In the case of the RN, there were over 5 years about 3000 incidents of cannibalisation where parts were required urgently (70% of those parts cost under £5000) – at the same time roughly 300,000 parts were delivered through the supply chain on time or as required. In other words 98.6% of the time, the RN has got the parts it needed without cannibalising."https://thinpinstripedline.blogspot.com ... w=magazine
TL:DR
. Propeller loss happened. Oof. not necessarily uncommon.
. MoD merged this emergency repair docking and a scheduled refit together.
. PoW giving tiny amount of parts to QE so she can maintain readiness while new parts being manufactured.
. "ct. In the case of the RN, there were over 5 years about 3000 incidents of cannibalisation where parts were required urgently (70% of those parts cost under £5000) – at the same time roughly 300,000 parts were delivered through the supply chain on time or as required. In other words 98.6% of the time, the RN has got the parts it needed without cannibalising."https://thinpinstripedline.blogspot.com ... w=magazine
-
- Senior Member
- Posts: 5585
- Joined: 06 May 2015, 13:18
Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion
Repair her. That is RN's top top top priority.
No T32 needed, as it is the LOWEST priority. MRSS can be postponed for 10 years. Of course, sell Waves. Go away with Scott (= cancelling MROSS(2)). Even selling some of the T31s is OK.
"Two carrier fleet" is the heart of RN.
"19 escorts and more" is NOT.
Replacing Argus is NOT. Replacing LPDs and Bays NOW is NOT. Scott is NOT. Waves are already gone, just sell them.
Just do it.
No T32 needed, as it is the LOWEST priority. MRSS can be postponed for 10 years. Of course, sell Waves. Go away with Scott (= cancelling MROSS(2)). Even selling some of the T31s is OK.
"Two carrier fleet" is the heart of RN.
"19 escorts and more" is NOT.
Replacing Argus is NOT. Replacing LPDs and Bays NOW is NOT. Scott is NOT. Waves are already gone, just sell them.
Just do it.
- These users liked the author donald_of_tokyo for the post:
- serge750
Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion
Procuring of larger and complex items of kit without much or very overly optimistic assumptions about the cost to maintain and support them leads to these problems. Cannibalising equipment is a symptom of a much bigger problem and can have very unintended consequences.
The Thin pinstriped line continuous nothing to see here move along narrative is flawed and indicative of the problem.
The Thin pinstriped line continuous nothing to see here move along narrative is flawed and indicative of the problem.
- Tempest414
- Senior Member
- Posts: 5612
- Joined: 04 Jan 2018, 23:39
Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion
Have you been on the sake todaydonald_of_tokyo wrote: ↑23 Apr 2023, 14:28 Repair her. That is RN's top top top priority.
No T32 needed, as it is the LOWEST priority. MRSS can be postponed for 10 years. Of course, sell Waves. Go away with Scott (= cancelling MROSS(2)). Even selling some of the T31s is OK.
"Two carrier fleet" is the heart of RN.
"19 escorts and more" is NOT.
Replacing Argus is NOT. Replacing LPDs and Bays NOW is NOT. Scott is NOT. Waves are already gone, just sell them.
Just do it.
Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion
There is a lot of truth in the article, certainly knew about the lift chains a while back. All phalanx gone, but then they would not be needed whilst in dry dock for a continued maintenance I guess. Not sure ship will be sailing soon for other issues with props and shafts, certainly nipper will be unlikely to sail with her before he leaves and goes to his next draft in August
Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion
Such a shame for Nipper (and everyone else on PoW)... Hope whatever he does in the future helps to make up for the massive disappointment.
Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion
His next draft is based at Semaphore Tower in HMNB Portsmouth...in his own words
Doing rounds of all the dead ships and helping out where needed in the Dockyard mate. All the jobs dockys don’t wanna do, it’s tabs out. You’ll occasionally get a boat out to the 23 in the graveyard and check it hasn’t sunk
As he has technically been at sea on a ship for 4 years he has to be shore based this draft.
- Tempest414
- Senior Member
- Posts: 5612
- Joined: 04 Jan 2018, 23:39
Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion
I think I would challenge that posting as he spent only a handful of days at seaPhillyJ wrote: ↑24 Apr 2023, 09:51His next draft is based at Semaphore Tower in HMNB Portsmouth...in his own words
Doing rounds of all the dead ships and helping out where needed in the Dockyard mate. All the jobs dockys don’t wanna do, it’s tabs out. You’ll occasionally get a boat out to the 23 in the graveyard and check it hasn’t sunk
As he has technically been at sea on a ship for 4 years he has to be shore based this draft.
- These users liked the author Tempest414 for the post (total 2):
- PhillyJ • Little J
-
- Senior Member
- Posts: 4090
- Joined: 15 Dec 2017, 10:25
Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion
Its a disaster for all involved. Imagine what RN could have done with that crew allocation in those four years.Tempest414 wrote: ↑24 Apr 2023, 10:37 I think I would challenge that posting as he spent only a handful of days at sea
- Tempest414
- Senior Member
- Posts: 5612
- Joined: 04 Jan 2018, 23:39
Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion
The crew allocation to POW is not the problem nor in someways is the fact that she has had problems it is a problem that RN has taken a closed view to the next posting of said people. So in my view people like nipper should be given another sea tour or at least a 2 year tour on say the LPD or given his trade a RFA were by he can get his sea daysPoiuytrewq wrote: ↑24 Apr 2023, 11:36Its a disaster for all involved. Imagine what RN could have done with that crew allocation in those four years.Tempest414 wrote: ↑24 Apr 2023, 10:37 I think I would challenge that posting as he spent only a handful of days at sea
- These users liked the author Tempest414 for the post:
- Poiuytrewq
Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion
https://www.navylookout.com/repairs-to- ... is-summer/
Someones confident.HMS Prince of Wales will return to Portsmouth in the next few months for some final maintenance work and the RN is confident she will be ready to begin her programme in August.