UK Forces in Africa

Discuss current, historical or potential future deployments, as well the defence of the UK's overseas interests.
User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 16312
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
United Kingdom

Re: UK Forces in Africa

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

The above piece mentions the "make peace" 250-strong recce force for Mali (MINUSMA) for three years and defencepost.com adds some flavour to the deployment: "The new deployment could see British troops working alongside Irish special forces. Ireland’s parliament in June [ last year] approved a government request to send the elite Army Ranger Wing to Mali. A team of 14 personnel will rotate every four months for two years, the Irish Times reported."
- and as we are in Estonia, it was befitting that the force protection contingent for our Chinooks deployment came from Estonia (70 strong)
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 16312
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
United Kingdom

Re: UK Forces in Africa

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Quite a buildup actually going on, the Operation Serval in Mali evolved in August 2014 into Operation Barkhane, which has a mandate for counter-terrorism operations across the region. The Barkhane force focuses activity in insurgent-hit Mali, Niger and Burkina Faso, working alongside local troops and other international operations, including the regional G5 Sahel Joint Force (FCG5S), which comprises troops from Burkina Faso, Mali, Niger, Chad and Mauritania, and MINUSMA, the U.N. stabilization mission in Mali.

In February, Armed Forces Minister Florence Parly said that the number of French troops deployed to the Sahel would increase from 4,500 to 5,100.

Can't keep track of the overlaps between the African G5 contribution and MINUSMA total, both totals around that 5k mark of the French alone. A more mobile 500-strong Tabuka TF to be added in the coming months, 100 of those coming from France and 150 Swedish heliborne SF (other countries in Europe in the frame, I guess what is missing from the total will be announced soon).
- and in the background 700-800 US SF giving support rather than doing a "John Wayne" of the Green Berets fame
- now I understand why the UK 250-strong force was announced a whole year before deployment... a motivational move for others to do their share
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

J. Tattersall

Re: UK Forces in Africa

Post by J. Tattersall »

Unfortunately this tragic continent is likely to be destabilized further by the effects of coronavirus as well as being a target for influence of malign external state actors whose aims are just as amoral as 19th century European colonists.

User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 16312
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
United Kingdom

Re: UK Forces in Africa

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Because the UK deployment (other than training, Chinooks and the force protection for their deployment) was announced so much in advance, the term "Tabuka" was not making rounds at the time, yet;
just noticed that the three nation total alone reaches that target 500
- if the UK contingent is meant to be part of it
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

Caribbean
Senior Member
Posts: 2784
Joined: 09 Jan 2016, 19:08
United Kingdom

Re: UK Forces in Africa

Post by Caribbean »

UK sending troops to Mali as part of the UN peacekeeping mission
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/0 ... ope-needs/
The men and women of the British Army’s Long Range Reconnaissance Group (Mali), based around the Light Dragoons Regiment, are preparing to deploy to the West African country to join the 15,000 UN peacekeepers already there.

The UN’s Multidimensional Integrated Stabilisation Mission in Mali (thankfully shortened to MINUSMA) is the new frontline in the war against jihadist extremism. The operation in Mali is currently the highest casualty UN peacekeeping operation in the world. Over 200 peacekeepers have been killed since the mission began in 2013.
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
Winston Churchill

SW1
Senior Member
Posts: 5657
Joined: 27 Aug 2018, 19:12
United Kingdom

Re: UK Forces in Africa

Post by SW1 »

Situation deteriorating rapidly in Mali

https://af.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idAFKCN25E2G4

LONDON (Reuters) - Mali President Ibrahim Boubacar Keita was arrested on Tuesday by mutinying soldiers in the capital Bamako, two security sources told Reuters.

The arrest came after soldiers mutinied at the Kati army base outside of Bamako and rounded up a number of senior civilian and military officials.

BlueD954
Member
Posts: 233
Joined: 02 Oct 2020, 05:11
Singapore

Re: UK Forces in Africa

Post by BlueD954 »

UK Forces in Mali using drones

https://www.joint-forces.com/exercise-n ... -d40-drone

Cool videos.

User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 16312
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
United Kingdom

Re: UK Forces in Africa

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Has there already been a rotation as a 250-strong force was due for the summer; compare with:
"Press Release, 30 October 2020: The 300-strong UK Task Group destined for Mali have completed their Mission Rehearsal Exercise ahead of their upcoming deployment to support the UN."
- Swedish SF, Estonians of the same ilk... Irish Rangers (=SF?), they were all due for this mobile recce force of 1000+, topped up to that number by France
- I guess the idea is to replicate the UN commander's mobile (real warfighting) reserve force as there has been in Lebanon... the area to cover is just vastly larger, so 'mobile' will be challenged
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

BlueD954
Member
Posts: 233
Joined: 02 Oct 2020, 05:11
Singapore

Re: UK Forces in Africa

Post by BlueD954 »

https://www.joint-forces.com/exercise-n ... -d40-drone

Spectra Group Slingshot
Harris T7 EOD UGV
DefendTex D40 UGL-launched Drone
Avinc Puma AE UAV

Ae these just on trial or waiting to be funded under the IR?

SW1
Senior Member
Posts: 5657
Joined: 27 Aug 2018, 19:12
United Kingdom

Re: UK Forces in Africa

Post by SW1 »

One can only hope the alarm bells of Helmand in 2006 are ringing loud.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/13547 ... s-al-qaeda

In July the Sunday Express revealed that an additional 45-strong Special Forces team had been sent to Mali to identify and iron out problems in advance.

A further 100 RAF personnel and three long range Chinook helicopter have been supporting a separate French mission for the past four years.

But senior officers have asked for an “operational rethink” about the size and capability of the planned force, focusing on potential capability gaps such as armoured protections, Apache gunships and the transportation of seriously injured soldiers who need to be ventilated to so-called role 2 or 3 hospitals.

And last night senior sources confirmed that the request had been granted by the Commander of Joint Operations Vice Admiral Bey Key, who will include SAS reports as he oversees the assessment.

User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 16312
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
United Kingdom

Re: UK Forces in Africa

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

SW1 wrote:an additional 45-strong Special Forces team had been sent to Mali to identify and iron out problems in advance.
That explains the from 250 to 300 change in numbers.

This force will not be operating alone, though. But rather, joining the new Task Force Takuba that will operate from three military bases of the Malian Armed Forces located in Gao, Ansongo and Menaka.

In July a hundred Estonian and French military started to train on the ground with the assigned Malian units. Later, in October 2020, a second contingent of some 60 members of the Czech Republic's special forces join the detachment. And as early as January 2021, a third contingent consisting of 150 Swedish soldiers will join the commands empowered to fight radical jihadist terrorism.

Takuba is being set up as a European military task force that will advise, assist and accompany the Malian Armed Forces in coordination with the G5 Sahel allies (Burkina Faso, Chad, Mali, Mauritania and Niger).
- the directly assigned French units as well as the incoming Brits have been missed from all announcements (exc. the initial ones that set the assigned int'l manpower at well over a thousand).
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 16312
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
United Kingdom

Re: UK Forces in Africa

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Quite a collection, though it would seem that different elements will rotate in and out:
"Belgium, the Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Germany, the Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Sweden, and the United Kingdom all made a political commitment to send special forces to Mali in March. French special forces will also participate."
- other reporting says that Germany has said 'Nein' whereas Italy is to be added (sending 200 at a date to be agreed)
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

BlueD954
Member
Posts: 233
Joined: 02 Oct 2020, 05:11
Singapore

Re: UK Forces in Africa

Post by BlueD954 »


User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 16312
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
United Kingdom

Re: UK Forces in Africa

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Yes and no, as there are parallel missions in Mali (all running for the same goal, but under different mobilisation mechanisms).

TF Tabuka is a parallel to what the UN force in Lebanon has had in the form of Commander's reserve:
- while the more numerous (infantry) force is spread out, there has been a (rotating) mech. bn equivalent to ride to the rescue should the temperature rise too much in any particular location

Of course in Mali it is already a shooting war, err a peace-making operation, and therefore this mobile force will operate more proactively
- Swedish rangers will move about in their helicopters
- Irish rangers were mentioned early on, but have disappeared from the announcements (have they been and gone?)
- and the report of a German 'nein' is hanging only off one report
... of course the contributions and how best to do the rotation are a matter of ongoing negotiation
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

J. Tattersall

Re: UK Forces in Africa

Post by J. Tattersall »

SW1 wrote: In July the Sunday Express revealed
Did you perhaps mean to say In July the Sunday Express completely made up ?

User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 16312
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
United Kingdom

Re: UK Forces in Africa

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

SW1 wrote:In July the Sunday Express revealed that an additional 45-strong Special Forces team had been sent to Mali to identify and iron out problems in advance.
They did not make this up. The army (perhaps the top general who is now 'above' the army and had a role in A-stan?) did not want a repeat of the 'Platoon House' strategy, where piece meal and widely dispersed forces might be (locally) overrun.
- reports have been filed; have they been actioned and how - we don't know

Of course the function of the force we are sending is to 'find' the enemy with wide-sweep on-the-ground recce. And 'that enemy' is much diluted from and more dispersed than in the days of Op Serval, but just to give a taste of what might be required after 'finding' - and this compares with almost the full TF Tabuka, which our force will be part of:

"For example, the 850-man- strong GTIA 3, which took part in the assault in the Adrar mountains, was composed of the following elements:
• One light tank company (12 AMX-10RCRs)
• One logistics company (66 GBC trucks)
• One mechanized infantry company (54 VBL/PVP, 87 VABs)
• One combat engineering company
• One artillery group with two CAESAR 155-mm self-propelled howitzers and four 120-mm mortars
• One drone and electronic warfare/signals intelligence detachment
• One air coordination platoon.

To note of the SGTIA (a French way of saying 'BG') was its combined arms status, specifically the integration of fire support and fire support coordination capabilities. They had at their disposal 120-mm mortars and 155-mm CAESAR howitzers, not to mention the guns on their armored vehicles" and air (both fast jets and French SOF helicopters).
- we will see if Apaches will be sent
- armour (Saladins - from the museum - would fit the bill perfectly), artillery nor heavy mortars not

Though the UN force now in Mali is numerous, it in the main does not have these types of assets and therefore often amount to a garrison force - in a vast country that has 5 times the area of the UK.
- hence the wide-sweep capability has been requested and has been sent

The quote above is from https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/p ... _RR770.pdf
which even today is recommended reading for understanding the local conditions (including the need to interact with v different parts of what makes up the overall population).
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 16312
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
United Kingdom

Re: UK Forces in Africa

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Our 300 guys are going to be based out of Gao.

So join a local tour (500 km, one way) to supply the next base. The 300 French there
- different year does not matter
Same terrain, same problems
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

SW1
Senior Member
Posts: 5657
Joined: 27 Aug 2018, 19:12
United Kingdom

Re: UK Forces in Africa

Post by SW1 »


User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 16312
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
United Kingdom

Re: UK Forces in Africa

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

In the IR, Somalia and Cabo Delgado got mentions as next possible areas for deployment. Nothing new about Somalia (Kenya is deeply involved in the fight against the AQ affiliate)

But further South the situation is complex and fast emerging. Wagner had about 200 of their mercenaries there (without much effect) and Dyck Advisory Group (DAG) of S. Africa has since had a couple dozen (results unknown). The latest is that both the US and Portugal have pledged training aid for the Gvmnt side, against the local ISIS affiliate
... what could be our approach (if any; the mention could have been included just as an example of emerging local conflicts)?
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

SW1
Senior Member
Posts: 5657
Joined: 27 Aug 2018, 19:12
United Kingdom

Re: UK Forces in Africa

Post by SW1 »

BBC report from being with the Long Range Recon Group in Mali


SW1
Senior Member
Posts: 5657
Joined: 27 Aug 2018, 19:12
United Kingdom

Re: UK Forces in Africa

Post by SW1 »

Times report on the Mali operation as well

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/61b2 ... d58ead6dec

User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 16312
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
United Kingdom

Re: UK Forces in Africa

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

When these things appear in various media, close to each other in time, it does smack of 'line to take' briefings being rehashed.

"About 250 peacekeepers have died. Colonel Markus Hook, 46, the Swedish commander of the Mobile Task Force, which includes the British unit, said that the threat was of “great concern”.

Britain is spending £80 million on the mission over three years and receiving about £1,430 per soldier from the UN. Robinson said that unlike in Afghanistan, where troops sought to defeat an insurgency, in Mali they were there to “protect the people from an insurgency”.["]

All in the above is/ could be correct, but this constant reference to peace-keeping; when there is no peace to keep - not even parties that could sit together and agree a 'settlement'.
- it all misses - on purpose - the fact that France asked for that Mobile TF (and they are part of it, too) so that they could have a little bit more 'hi-tech' force helping in locating the enemies that they could then strike
- - the Africa-sourced components of the UN force are pretty static and, thus, they can't achieve the same
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

SW1
Senior Member
Posts: 5657
Joined: 27 Aug 2018, 19:12
United Kingdom

Re: UK Forces in Africa

Post by SW1 »

ArmChairCivvy wrote:When these things appear in various media, close to each other in time, it does smack of 'line to take' briefings being rehashed.

"About 250 peacekeepers have died. Colonel Markus Hook, 46, the Swedish commander of the Mobile Task Force, which includes the British unit, said that the threat was of “great concern”.

Britain is spending £80 million on the mission over three years and receiving about £1,430 per soldier from the UN. Robinson said that unlike in Afghanistan, where troops sought to defeat an insurgency, in Mali they were there to “protect the people from an insurgency”.["]

All in the above is/ could be correct, but this constant reference to peace-keeping; when there is no peace to keep - not even parties that could sit together and agree a 'settlement'.
- it all misses - on purpose - the fact that France asked for that Mobile TF (and they are part of it, too) so that they could have a little bit more 'hi-tech' force helping in locating the enemies that they could then strike
- - the Africa-sourced components of the UN force are pretty static and, thus, they can't achieve the same
I think the news coverage close together is probably because MOD has allowed reporters to tag along recently to highlight what’s going on.

I think the emphasis is because it’s a UN mission and are at pains to point out it’s separate from the French counter insurgent mission. Dont think that’s a problem. I also think it’s something they expect to see the light forces doing more off if you read the integrated review adding capability and access to more high end surveillance systems and the like, to the much larger UN mission.

I think there is a discussion of what the long term answer is in places like this and it’s not just a UK discussion as we are a small part of it. A UN discussion of the full gambit of development, employment, security and progress. But highlighting what is going on and raising the profile is a gd place to start.

User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 16312
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
United Kingdom

Re: UK Forces in Africa

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

SW1 wrote: to highlight what’s going on.
SW1 wrote: it’s not just a UK discussion as we are a small part of it. A UN discussion of the full gambit of development, employment, security and progress. But highlighting what is going on and raising the profile is a gd place to start.
As for the former, yes they have painted a graphic &vivid picture; but seen though a drinking straw.
As for the latter, all those aspects run through all of the Sahel.

A little bit more high-fidelity - as for that country rather than trying to capture it 'all' - reporting would have said that there is a sizeable UN force there (already since long), but as the rebels run circles around them, there needs to be a multilateral force that can find the buggers in the vastness... and then the French can deal with them (with their own rules of engagement).

It's a bit of a Vietnam Hamburger Hill moment: shall we seek to engage the oppos and kill enough of them so that their drive comes to nothing... or shall we (what was the size of the overall UN force there again?) just babysit all kinds of projects and say: we will use violence (Lt Col saying that) but only in extremis
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

SW1
Senior Member
Posts: 5657
Joined: 27 Aug 2018, 19:12
United Kingdom

Re: UK Forces in Africa

Post by SW1 »


Post Reply