Boxer / Mechanised Infantry Vehicle (MIV)

Contains threads on British Army equipment of the past, present and future.
sol
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Re: Boxer / Mechanised Infantry Vehicle (MIV)

Post by sol »

Lord Jim wrote: 08 Dec 2021, 03:25 Aren't the first Boxers coming off the German production line?
Yes, and their production started in June this year and first vehicles should be delivered in late 2022. UK will provide some components for them. It was planed that production in UK will start in 2023.

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Re: Boxer / Mechanised Infantry Vehicle (MIV)

Post by Ron5 »

sol wrote: 08 Dec 2021, 08:11
Lord Jim wrote: 08 Dec 2021, 03:25 Aren't the first Boxers coming off the German production line?
Yes, and their production started in June this year and first vehicles should be delivered in late 2022. UK will provide some components for them. It was planed that production in UK will start in 2023.
Excellent news and there have been hints from the MoD that production rates will be increased.

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Re: Boxer / Mechanised Infantry Vehicle (MIV)

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Re: Boxer / Mechanised Infantry Vehicle (MIV)

Post by Lord Jim »

Great news, though considering the platform is mature I would have been surprised if the Drive Module hadn't done well.

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Re: Boxer / Mechanised Infantry Vehicle (MIV)

Post by sol »

Lithuanian Army School mechanics removing the Samson Mk2 remote turret from Boxer IFV Samson



So basically no intrusion into passenger compartment and no need to reduce number of dismounts.

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Re: Boxer / Mechanised Infantry Vehicle (MIV)

Post by RunningStrong »

sol wrote: 15 Dec 2021, 14:15 Lithuanian Army School mechanics removing the Samson Mk2 remote turret from Boxer IFV Samson



So basically no intrusion into passenger compartment and no need to reduce number of dismounts.
I'd assume British Army standards would expect a Gunner in there, and not have Commander alone operating medium calibre weapon.

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Re: Boxer / Mechanised Infantry Vehicle (MIV)

Post by mr.fred »

RunningStrong wrote: 15 Dec 2021, 17:28 I'd assume British Army standards would expect a Gunner in there, and not have Commander alone operating medium calibre weapon.
I would expect two crew remote operation with access to the turret for reversionary operation.

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Re: Boxer / Mechanised Infantry Vehicle (MIV)

Post by Lord Jim »

The Vilkas has both a Commander and a Gunner, that control the Samson Mk2 from within the hull. I am assuming the Commander has access to the turret controls but it could be that only the Gunner has. All weapons mounted in the turret can be reloaded under armour and the Turret has a "Heads out" capability for the Commander for greater situational awareness.

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Re: Boxer / Mechanised Infantry Vehicle (MIV)

Post by sol »

RunningStrong wrote: 15 Dec 2021, 17:28 I'd assume British Army standards would expect a Gunner in there, and not have Commander alone operating medium calibre weapon.
Vilkas has crew of three with dedicated gunner beside commander. If I am not wrong, even in APC version with 50cal, it was not commander who operate remote station but gunner. Number of those remote turrets could also have separated gunner and commander sights (but without remote station on top), like Kongsberg Protector series for example.

British Army could go instead with the same turret as Ajax or the one that was developed for Warrior CSP (not sure if those are same but they don't look same), but in that case number of dismounts will need to be reduced. For example Australian Boxer CRV can only carry 4 man, so unless platoon is reduced it would required more than just 4 vehicle to transport all men.

But everything is better than just 50cal as it is intended now.

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Re: Boxer / Mechanised Infantry Vehicle (MIV)

Post by RunningStrong »

Lord Jim wrote: 15 Dec 2021, 18:13 The Vilkas has both a Commander and a Gunner, that control the Samson Mk2 from within the hull. I am assuming the Commander has access to the turret controls but it could be that only the Gunner has. All weapons mounted in the turret can be reloaded under armour and the Turret has a "Heads out" capability for the Commander for greater situational awareness.
I'd assume gunner and commander would ha e duplicated controls, with gunner taking up at least one dismount position, plus additional ammunition stowage and/or power distribution.

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Re: Boxer / Mechanised Infantry Vehicle (MIV)

Post by Lord Jim »

The vehicle has three crew, Driver, Commander and Gunner and up to eight dismounts, the same as the APC because the Samson Mk2 is a RWS and doesn't impact on the interior of the Mission Module. The Australian Boxer CRV with its manned Rheinmetall Lance turret can only carry six dismounts though a remote unmanned version of the Lance exists. Nexter have produced an unmanned remote turret that uses the CTS 40mm Cannon as well as two ATGW, in this case the French MMP, though an alternative like the Spike-LR2 could be fitted. Both these remote turret would allow the retention of eight dismounts. If the British Army issues a requirement for a variant of teh Boxer with greater firepower, it would be spoilt for choice.

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Re: Boxer / Mechanised Infantry Vehicle (MIV)

Post by sol »

Lord Jim wrote: 15 Dec 2021, 18:50 The Australian Boxer CRV with its manned Rheinmetall Lance turret can only carry six dismounts though a remote unmanned version of the Lance exists.
I am not sure where did you find that Boxer CRV could carry 6 dismounts. I can only find info about four. Even this pamphlet about Land 400 phase 2 only mention 4 dismounts

https://sussanley.com/wp-content/upload ... 9-7895.pdf

Can you give a source for 6?

Edit: just found this photos, inside of Boxer CRV.

Image

Image

It seems like just four seats for dismounts

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Re: Boxer / Mechanised Infantry Vehicle (MIV)

Post by sol »

RunningStrong wrote: 15 Dec 2021, 18:28 I'd assume gunner and commander would ha e duplicated controls, with gunner taking up at least one dismount position, plus additional ammunition stowage and/or power distribution.
Possible. For example Boxer with 30mm unmanned Lance turret, have crew of three and seven dismounts.

Image

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Re: Boxer / Mechanised Infantry Vehicle (MIV)

Post by Lord Jim »

I apologise if the CRV only carries four dismounts. When I mentioned that up thread I was told I was in error and it was six, when I was discussing the merits of an unmanned turret verses a manned one. Also the Manufacturers brochure states that the Vilkas can carry eight Dismounts and three crew even though its user actually only routinely carries six. So it is most likely eight Sardines or six with room to carry extra kit etc.
https://www.artec-boxer.com/index.php?id=54
http://fighting-vehicles.com/vilkas-inf ... etherlands.
http://fighting-vehicles.com/boxer-comb ... e-vehicle/

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Re: Boxer / Mechanised Infantry Vehicle (MIV)

Post by sol »

Lord Jim wrote: 16 Dec 2021, 11:08 I apologise if the CRV only carries four dismounts.
You don't need to apologize, I was just wandering what is a source for 6 because I could only find 4. But on the images you posted there is indeed 6 seats for dismounts so I guess it is up to arrangement of seats, comfort of soldiers inside and additional equipment that needs to be carried. For example Lynx usually carry 8 dismounts but it could be arranged to carry 9.

Image

I guess that for British Army it would need to carry at least seven dismounts beside commander to match Warrior capacity.

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Re: Boxer / Mechanised Infantry Vehicle (MIV)

Post by Lord Jim »

Then again the British Army is trialling six man/woman Infantry Section.

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Re: Boxer / Mechanised Infantry Vehicle (MIV)

Post by bobp »

Some news on Boxers for UK trials.


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Re: Boxer / Mechanised Infantry Vehicle (MIV)

Post by bobp »

Good article on Boxer periscope order from UK Defence Journal

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/gus-to- ... d-vehicle/

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Re: Boxer / Mechanised Infantry Vehicle (MIV)

Post by mr.fred »

Cwmbran, not Lübbecke?

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Re: Boxer / Mechanised Infantry Vehicle (MIV)

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Re: Boxer / Mechanised Infantry Vehicle (MIV)

Post by tomuk »

What is wrong with Rheinmetall/BAE? The amount of Press/PR WFEL/KMW put out you would think Rheinmetall have nothing to do with Boxer.

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Re: Boxer / Mechanised Infantry Vehicle (MIV)

Post by Lord Jim »

I think the short answer is nothing. WFEL seems just to be in the headlines more, maybe due to any new jobs being created and their location.

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