Boxer / Mechanised Infantry Vehicle (MIV)

[bobp]

Looks pretty useful for defence against drones...

[mr.fred]

The German shill still at it I see.

[wargame_insomniac]

The German shill still at it I see.

What is your suggestion M- Shorad for Boxer infantry Battalions? Don't mean that in a critical way, simple curiosity?

If an UK Infantry Battalion is being depleyed, potentially by air to Poland or Estonia to rapidly deploy as deterrance, makes sense to me to include Boxer variants with SAM to counter more expensive enemy missiles and aircraft, AA gun system vs cheaper drones, loitering munitions, turreted mortar and/or gun to give close support, bridge-laying, recovery vehicle- basically anything that is going to face opposing fire.

Some have suggested a 6v6 wheeled vehicle for cheaper option for vehicles that are well away from the main battles. Given that scout formations for Boxer Infantry Battalions, I assume that these lshould be Boxer equipped too.

The point for me is that we need to maximise the amount of fighting ability we can squeeze out of limited funds, and cover off the many capability gaps that we currently have for our Medium Mechanised formations.

If any such wheeled Boxer Recon can benefit from some of the expensively learned lessons of the Ajax project, and have improved detection and comms equipment, then surely that is good thing IMO.

Similarly if we can get some additional seats into Ares version of Ajax, if and only if Ajax has been finally and beletedly delivered to complete the initial Ajax contract, I am not adverse to adding some tracked infantry support to our Heavy Armoured formations.

[tomuk]

The German shill still at it I see.

Well yes but overall having boxers with no turrets isn't really good enough is it?

[bobp]

An article on future land power.....

[Jackstar]

[wargame_insomniac]

The German shill still at it I see.

What is your suggestion M- Shorad for Boxer infantry Battalions? Don't mean that in a critical way, simple curiosity?

If an UK Infantry Battalion is being depleyed, potentially by air to Poland or Estonia to rapidly deploy as deterrance, makes sense to me to include Boxer variants with SAM to counter more expensive enemy missiles and aircraft, AA gun system vs cheaper drones, loitering munitions, turreted mortar and/or gun to give close support, bridge-laying, recovery vehicle- basically anything that is going to face opposing fire.

Some have suggested a 6v6 wheeled vehicle for cheaper option for vehicles that are well away from the main battles. Given that scout formations for Boxer Infantry Battalions, I assume that these lshould be Boxer equipped too.

The point for me is that we need to maximise the amount of fighting ability we can squeeze out of limited funds, and cover off the many capability gaps that we currently have for our Medium Mechanised formations.

If any such wheeled Boxer Recon can benefit from some of the expensively learned lessons of the Ajax project, and have improved detection and comms equipment, then surely that is good thing IMO.

Similarly if we can get some additional seats into Ares version of Ajax, if and only if Ajax has been finally and beletedly delivered to complete the initial Ajax contract, I am not adverse to adding some tracked infantry support to our Heavy Armoured formations.

The Moog RiWP makes an awful lot of sense. 30mm cannon, 7.62 co-ax, Startstreak, LMM, Brimstone and Javelin all can be attached with sensors as required.

If we're going to have a big honking turret it needs to come equipped with CT40 as we have 400 odd sat in a warehouse...

[RunningStrong]

245 CT40 plus spares/training were binned off WCSP.

[Ron5]

Seems to have collected a few boxes on the roof. Any ideas what they are for?

[RunningStrong]

Seems to have collected a few boxes on the roof. Any ideas what they are for?

The Boxer on the British Army stand at DSEI was "cluttered" to say the least.

[Jackstar]

There's kit in Boxer and Ajax which the public aren't privy to.

[sol]

Fourth Boxer prototype delivered

[new guy]

Love the comment that asks why it isn't self-deploying

[bobp]

The Army now has a requirement for a 120mm Mortar for the Boxer according to Shepherd Media...

https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/land ... tic-boxer/


Think there is a spelling mistake in address....

[leonard]

Breaking news out of Germany.
The Bundeswehr has finaly decided (they took their time for so long) to acquire 123 of the Australian Boxer CRV block 2 for their needs. This mean the manned Lance turret with Spike Atgm missiles.
https://x.com/Jeff21461/status/1770476323447644525?s=20

[Jensy]

Breaking news out of Germany.
The Bundeswehr has finaly decided (they took their time for so long) to acquire 123 of the Australian Boxer CRV block 2 for their needs. This mean the manned Lance turret with Spike Atgm missiles.
https://x.com/Jeff21461/status/1770476323447644525?s=20

At c.€15.5m per unit (for the current main user) I can see why we're so reluctant to specify a Boxer IFV for the British Army.

[Markam]

Breaking news out of Germany.
The Bundeswehr has finaly decided (they took their time for so long) to acquire 123 of the Australian Boxer CRV block 2 for their needs. This mean the manned Lance turret with Spike Atgm missiles.
https://x.com/Jeff21461/status/1770476323447644525?s=20

At c.€15.5m per unit (for the current main user) I can see why we're so reluctant to specify a Boxer IFV for the British Army.

It would give us multiple vehicle types and be a bit of a nightmare, but is it really too late to buy the CV90? ...
I am not sure how much it costs exactly, but Slovakia bought 152 for $1.37b 2022 (so more like $1.45b today), so about $9.55mil a unit. It is lowish volume, and they are being built in Slovakia, but the cost seems logical enough.

The Germans are not too keen on the Boxer now they are building the Lynx/Puma, which gives them more economic benefits, which is just typical of the Germans. The Swedish arms industry seems easier to work with. You would think I am Swedish with how much I push the Gripen and CV90 but they are both excellent kit and very good value for money.

I would personally buy only the minimum amount of Boxers we are contracted for and try to make them as useful as possible in other roles (like an AS-90 replacement, mortar, AA, MLRS etc), and spend the money that would be for AS-90 and the boxers not bought on the CV90 or a more effective tracked IFV.

[Markam]

Breaking news out of Germany.
The Bundeswehr has finaly decided (they took their time for so long) to acquire 123 of the Australian Boxer CRV block 2 for their needs. This mean the manned Lance turret with Spike Atgm missiles.
https://x.com/Jeff21461/status/1770476323447644525?s=20

At c.€15.5m per unit (for the current main user) I can see why we're so reluctant to specify a Boxer IFV for the British Army.

It would give us multiple vehicle types and be a bit of a nightmare, but is it really too late to buy the CV90? ...
I am not sure how much it costs exactly, but Slovakia bought 152 for $1.37b 2022 (so more like $1.45b today), so about $9.55mil a unit. It is lowish volume, and they are being built in Slovakia, but the cost seems logical enough.

The Germans are not too keen on the Boxer now they are building the Lynx/Puma, which gives them more economic benefits, which is just typical of the Germans. The Swedish arms industry seems easier to work with. You would think I am Swedish with how much I push the Gripen and CV90 but they are both excellent kit and very good value for money.

I would personally like to see a new government in 2025 decide that the Boxers we are contracted for are actually a replacement for the Bulldog and other roles owing to the modular design (like an AS-90 replacement, mortar, AA, MLRS etc), and spend the money that would be for AS-90 and Bulldog replacement on the CV90 or a more effective tracked IFV to replace the Warrior. It would leave us with a tobe retired Warrior in 2025 left without a replacement in time however and that is ofc not great.

[sol]

It would give us multiple vehicle types and be a bit of a nightmare, but is it really too late to buy the CV90? ...

To late to buy it for what? IFV? Issue is UK does not have a project of replacing Warrior so no set budget. Boxer was intended to serve along upgraded Warrior but now that is canceled Boxer is only thing left, so it will have to do for now. It is not possible just to cancel Boxer for something else, and for getting tracked IFV, UK would need to decide what to do with Boxer and reorganise it orbat once more. Again.

The Germans are not too keen on the Boxer now they are building the Lynx/Puma

I am not sure where do you get this. If fact Germany is planing to increase its Boxer fleet and create brigades that will be completely equipped with it. But they will also keep their Puma fleet (they do not operate Lynx or is there any order for it). So one is not excluding other one. Just like USA with Bradley and Stryker or Poland with BMPs and Rosomak. It is possible to operate both wheeled and tracked vehicles there is role for both.

[Markam]

I came across this article a few days ago;
https://www.eurasiantimes.com/is-german ... y-vehicle/

Though it is just speculation and the Australian deal does make the article look a little less convincing. It is true that the Puma/Lynx is a different role.

As for the CV90 purchase; It lost to the Ajax to replace the Spartan/etc vehicles, and the Boxer is apparently to replace the Warrior (even though it makes no sense to me) and the Bulldog replacement is still TBD (expected to be considered post 2025), so it is quite confusing. Any purchase of a Bulldog replacement would look very similar to the Boxer in capability, so it could just be that we purchase a considerable amount of Boxers, which leaves us without a like-for-like replacement for the Warrior (a tracked IFV).

So I hope the 2025 Review lays out exactly what we are wanting to purchase in addition to the current purchases.

[bobp]

I came across this article a few days ago;
https://www.eurasiantimes.com/is-german ... y-vehicle/

Though it is just speculation and the Australian deal does make the article look a little less convincing. It is true that the Puma/Lynx is a different role.

As for the CV90 purchase; It lost to the Ajax to replace the Spartan/etc vehicles, and the Boxer is apparently to replace the Warrior (even though it makes no sense to me) and the Bulldog replacement is still TBD (expected to be considered post 2025), so it is quite confusing. Any purchase of a Bulldog replacement would look very similar to the Boxer in capability, so it could just be that we purchase a considerable amount of Boxers, which leaves us without a like-for-like replacement for the Warrior (a tracked IFV).

So I hope the 2025 Review lays out exactly what we are wanting to purchase in addition to the current purchases.

Do not forget that the UK and Australia have Boxer production lines. In fact Germany recently ordered some from Australia as they are busy producing the first British ones. Going forward I hope to see more variants such as the Mortar carrier and Skyranger.

[bobp]

I'd rather see a turreted mortar (NEMO or AMOS) on a CV90 than anything else. More mobile, better protected. Doesn't reward GD UK for shitty performance on Ajax & Morpheus.

[bobp]

I came across this article a few days ago;
https://www.eurasiantimes.com/is-german ... y-vehicle/

Though it is just speculation and the Australian deal does make the article look a little less convincing. It is true that the Puma/Lynx is a different role.

As for the CV90 purchase; It lost to the Ajax to replace the Spartan/etc vehicles, and the Boxer is apparently to replace the Warrior (even though it makes no sense to me) and the Bulldog replacement is still TBD (expected to be considered post 2025), so it is quite confusing. Any purchase of a Bulldog replacement would look very similar to the Boxer in capability, so it could just be that we purchase a considerable amount of Boxers, which leaves us without a like-for-like replacement for the Warrior (a tracked IFV).

So I hope the 2025 Review lays out exactly what we are wanting to purchase in addition to the current purchases.

Do not forget that the UK and Australia have Boxer production lines. In fact Germany recently ordered some from Australia as they are busy producing the first British ones. Going forward I hope to see more variants such as the Mortar carrier and Skyranger.

According to Nick Drummond this article is a lie....

[mr.fred]

Well, he'd know about that.

[leonard]

It's the Eurasian Times, whatever agenda that article serves it's certainly not aligned with that of the UK... To put it very mildly.

The phrase "Royal Army" should probably rule it out from being taken seriously too.