FV4034 Challenger 2 Main Battle Tank (British Army)

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Re: FV4034 Challenger 2 Main Battle Tank (British Army)

Post by sol »

There are 75 CR2 in storage, beside 227 in service, all of them nonoperational. That would mean total of 302 CR2 left from original fleet.

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Re: FV4034 Challenger 2 Main Battle Tank (British Army)

Post by BB85 »

Are the tanks in storage at risk of cannibalisation, or are they kept in a state of readiness so they can be reactivated fairly quickly?

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Re: FV4034 Challenger 2 Main Battle Tank (British Army)

Post by sol »

BB85 wrote: 26 Jan 2023, 14:30 Are the tanks in storage at risk of cannibalisation, or are they kept in a state of readiness so they can be reactivated fairly quickly?
Unknown, but probably, stripped at least partially. I doubt they could be reactivated quickly, if at all, but, if hulls are intact, could be used to be upgraded to CR3, as turret is completely new anyway. But any additional tank sent to Ukraine, would probably have to be taken from active fleet.

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Re: FV4034 Challenger 2 Main Battle Tank (British Army)

Post by Ron5 »

"Habemus" ?

No wonder the MoD's stuck in the past.

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Re: FV4034 Challenger 2 Main Battle Tank (British Army)

Post by inch »

Just a quick question for someone who might be in the know, could UK convert challenger 1 basic hulls into challenger 3 ,ie is the basic hulls the same ,I know maybe different armour ( Dorchester, Cobham) but could that be added to a striped down basic hull?,yes engine different?and electrical systems but I imagine suspension,tracks same , just fit more new turrets etc ,I do realize probably totally unpractical but someone will tell me I'm hoping ,was just thinking outside the box to increase UK tank reserves for now without buying new tank lol

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Re: FV4034 Challenger 2 Main Battle Tank (British Army)

Post by Caribbean »

I suspect it could be done, but it might not be quite as well armoured as one built from a C2 hull. But there could be other uses for them - I wonder if there are any Marksman turrets still knocking around - Ukraine has shown the value of SPAAGs for anti-drone work. Or drop in a Cockerill 120mm turret for a cheaper conversion to NATO standard ammunition
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Re: FV4034 Challenger 2 Main Battle Tank (British Army)

Post by Tempest414 »

do we even have any Ch 1's left in store for me we need to get the 75 stored CH2's converted to CH3 before we start on any in serves vehicles

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Re: FV4034 Challenger 2 Main Battle Tank (British Army)

Post by sol »

Caribbean wrote: 27 Jan 2023, 17:24 I wonder if there are any Marksman turrets still knocking around
As far as I know, only 7 turrets were made and all were sold to Finland which is now using them mounted on Leo 2 hull.
Tempest414 wrote: 27 Jan 2023, 19:01 do we even have any Ch 1's left in store for me we need to get the 75 stored CH2's converted to CH3 before we start on any in serves vehicles
UK does not have any CR1 in storage, all were shipped to Jordan, except some museum examples maybe. Preparation of hulls for upgrade already started on the tanks from the active fleet in 2021 under "Heavy Armour Automotive Improvement Programme".
As part of the base overhaul process, each Challenger 2 will be stripped to bare hulls and subjected to ultrasonic inspection, weld repair and repainting. Every component is removed and inspected for serviceability to ensure that the vehicle is as close to new as possible when it is rebuilt.

The HAAIP upgrades will then introduce new components to the rebuild process to improve its suspension, engine and transmission.
https://des.mod.uk/challenger-2-vehicle ... programme/

UK will probably not use those stored tanks unless it decide to upgrade additional tanks and number of upgraded tanks would exceed 213 that will left after 14 of them were sent to Ukraine.

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Re: FV4034 Challenger 2 Main Battle Tank (British Army)

Post by Caribbean »

sol wrote: 27 Jan 2023, 19:52 As far as I know, only 7 turrets were made and all were sold to Finland which is now using them mounted on Leo 2 hull.
I think you are right about that unfortunately - I wonder if it would be worth building new ones?
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Re: FV4034 Challenger 2 Main Battle Tank (British Army)

Post by mr.fred »

Caribbean wrote: 27 Jan 2023, 21:45 I think you are right about that unfortunately - I wonder if it would be worth building new ones?
A replacement SPAAG, perhaps.
Dusting off the old technical drawings and restarting the production 'line'? No.

A turret with modern fire control and large calibre auto cannon ought to do as well. Maybe some slight modifications for detecting and tracking air targets.

Ajax might have some use, but an IFV armed as such might have been a good idea too.

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Re: FV4034 Challenger 2 Main Battle Tank (British Army)

Post by sol »

There are already Boxer Skyranger 30 & 35, there is no need to produce a new turret and mount it on the tank when there is already a solution which is providing same role.
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Re: FV4034 Challenger 2 Main Battle Tank (British Army)

Post by Ron5 »

sol wrote: 27 Jan 2023, 22:22 There are already Boxer Skyranger 30 & 35, there is no need to produce a new turret and mount it on the tank when there is already a solution which is providing same role.
The army has looked at both. The rumour is that they prefer the 35.

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Re: FV4034 Challenger 2 Main Battle Tank (British Army)

Post by mr.fred »

So much for the CT40

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Re: FV4034 Challenger 2 Main Battle Tank (British Army)

Post by Ron5 »

inch wrote: 27 Jan 2023, 16:55 Just a quick question for someone who might be in the know, could UK convert challenger 1 basic hulls into challenger 3 ,ie is the basic hulls the same ,I know maybe different armour ( Dorchester, Cobham) but could that be added to a striped down basic hull?,yes engine different?and electrical systems but I imagine suspension,tracks same , just fit more new turrets etc ,I do realize probably totally unpractical but someone will tell me I'm hoping ,was just thinking outside the box to increase UK tank reserves for now without buying new tank lol
If all you are just looking for a hull, easy enough to make new ones. Several UK firms have the capability and I believe the jigs are still around.

But that's not really the hard or expensive part of building a new tank.

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Re: FV4034 Challenger 2 Main Battle Tank (British Army)

Post by Ron5 »

mr.fred wrote: 28 Jan 2023, 14:34 So much for the CT40
No OTS AA product uses CT40.

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Re: FV4034 Challenger 2 Main Battle Tank (British Army)

Post by RunningStrong »

mr.fred wrote: 28 Jan 2023, 14:34 So much for the CT40
RapidFire Naval design in pre-production as of Nov 22.

https://www.edrmagazine.eu/rapidfire-a- ... d-not-only

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Re: FV4034 Challenger 2 Main Battle Tank (British Army)

Post by sol »

There is also a land version of RAPIDFire. Considering all those CT40 left after WCSP cancellation, the Army should definitely look into it. It could be mounted on MAN, but probably not the best suited to be fit on Boxer

Image


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Re: FV4034 Challenger 2 Main Battle Tank (British Army)

Post by mr.fred »

Any sign that the Army is looking at it for a AAA role?

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Re: FV4034 Challenger 2 Main Battle Tank (British Army)

Post by Ron5 »

Nice try but land Rapidfire is not available OTS. Old pictures of prototypes don't count, would still need extensive development & testing before any production. Naval guns are irrelevant in a discussion on BA needs. But hey ho, forums.

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Re: FV4034 Challenger 2 Main Battle Tank (British Army)

Post by mr.fred »

I don't think that Skyranger is anything more than a prototype at the moment either.

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Re: FV4034 Challenger 2 Main Battle Tank (British Army)

Post by RunningStrong »

Ron5 wrote: 28 Jan 2023, 17:08 Nice try but land Rapidfire is not available OTS. Old pictures of prototypes don't count, would still need extensive development & testing before any production. Naval guns are irrelevant in a discussion on BA needs. But hey ho, forums.
Who claimed it was OTS?

Naval guns aren't irrelevant when it's the very same munition, ordnance and FCS. Or do UAS fly differently over water?

It's literally pre-production. Didn't read the article?

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Re: FV4034 Challenger 2 Main Battle Tank (British Army)

Post by inch »

Ron5 wrote: 28 Jan 2023, 14:35
inch wrote: 27 Jan 2023, 16:55 Just a quick question for someone who might be in the know, could UK convert challenger 1 basic hulls into challenger 3 ,ie is the basic hulls the same ,I know maybe different armour ( Dorchester, Cobham) but could that be added to a striped down basic hull?,yes engine different?and electrical systems but I imagine suspension,tracks same , just fit more new turrets etc ,I do realize probably totally unpractical but someone will tell me I'm hoping ,was just thinking outside the box to increase UK tank reserves for now without buying new tank lol
If all you are just looking for a hull, easy enough to make new ones. Several UK firms have the capability and I believe the jigs are still around.

But that's not really the hard or expensive part of building a new tank.
Yes was just looking to see hypothetical if more ch3 tanks for UK could even be produced now out of converting old tanks if even possible ,that is if government ( mod) decided that we indeed needed more ,as thought the capacity to build new ones has totally gone,even if as someone said think we have 227 and 75 other hulls in storage,and we don't know if any more yet as time goes on to be gifted to Ukraine yet as challengers not even taken on Russians yet ,and replacements for if any taken out ,or the other way and Ukraine likes them and wants UK to provide more as battle goes on

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Re: FV4034 Challenger 2 Main Battle Tank (British Army)

Post by Ron5 »

mr.fred wrote: 28 Jan 2023, 17:17 I don't think that Skyranger is anything more than a prototype at the moment either.
The 30mm yes. The 35mm no.

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Re: FV4034 Challenger 2 Main Battle Tank (British Army)

Post by Ron5 »

inch wrote: 28 Jan 2023, 17:38
Ron5 wrote: 28 Jan 2023, 14:35
inch wrote: 27 Jan 2023, 16:55 Just a quick question for someone who might be in the know, could UK convert challenger 1 basic hulls into challenger 3 ,ie is the basic hulls the same ,I know maybe different armour ( Dorchester, Cobham) but could that be added to a striped down basic hull?,yes engine different?and electrical systems but I imagine suspension,tracks same , just fit more new turrets etc ,I do realize probably totally unpractical but someone will tell me I'm hoping ,was just thinking outside the box to increase UK tank reserves for now without buying new tank lol
If all you are just looking for a hull, easy enough to make new ones. Several UK firms have the capability and I believe the jigs are still around.

But that's not really the hard or expensive part of building a new tank.
Yes was just looking to see hypothetical if more ch3 tanks for UK could even be produced now out of converting old tanks if even possible ,that is if government ( mod) decided that we indeed needed more ,as thought the capacity to build new ones has totally gone,even if as someone said think we have 227 and 75 other hulls in storage,and we don't know if any more yet as time goes on to be gifted to Ukraine yet as challengers not even taken on Russians yet ,and replacements for if any taken out ,or the other way and Ukraine likes them and wants UK to provide more as battle goes on
I don't think it has. All the bits & pieces are still available or could be made available. Wouldn't be inexpensive but a new CH3 production line at RBSL is not impossible. They're already rebuilding the CH3's from the ground up.

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Re: FV4034 Challenger 2 Main Battle Tank (British Army)

Post by Zeno »

Is it possible to replace the Challenger ones gun turret with a 150mm artillery system to the Russians ,it would not be then involved in tank on tank battles ?

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