UK Defence Forum

ArmChairCivvy wrote:

Pseudo wrote:unequivocal revoke and remain position allows Labour to pitch their position as a compromise.

They had this huge opportunity. But then this Lansman throws it all away (the Bolsheviks started their revolution a tad early; should have waited for the Mensheviks to clear the way, first).
- it is like in Animal Farm, releasing the dogs when they were still puppies. The Question is of course: were they released, or did they break their leash

Lansman's from the Lexit end of the party, so I wouldn't be surprised if this was a bit of a dead cat to distract from any unity that might come out of the conference on Brexit. But if it is then he's cutting his nose off to spite his face because reinvigorating the divisions in the party ahead of a likely election is insanely counterproductive.

Pseudo wrote: cutting his nose off to spite his face [because] reinvigorating the divisions

Isn't it befitting that both of the main parties have their own Rasputin?
- and also the sequel will follow the same plot (both main parties will be de-throwned)

Looks like Labour has two Rasputins, though: "Speaking to Sky's Sophy Ridge, union boss Len McCluskey says Labour's shadow cabinet should fall in line on a second referendum."

What was it about Red Ed risking his neck and changing the Labour Constitution (re: unions' vote)? Is there a back door that has been left open
- let's see if the members will go along with these machinations

ArmChairCivvy wrote:

Pseudo wrote: cutting his nose off to spite his face [because] reinvigorating the divisions

Isn't it befitting that both of the main parties have their own Rasputin?
- and also the sequel will follow the same plot (both main parties will be de-throwned)

Yeah, Seamus Milne and Dominic Cummings are both wannabe Machiavelli's...

...and also look like vampires.

Into the conference:
"would [Britain] be better off inside the European Union or outside it, [and] the Labour leader replied: “It depends on the agreement you have with the European Union outside”.

...and coming out of the conference (ok, it hasn't finished yet) all we know about "the" agreement is that it will be "softer"
- so SFA, but call that a policy?

The problem with standing in the middle of the road is that you get run over from both directions.

Christ....

I have zero clue why anyone in their sane mind, and i mean anyone, would vote for this bunch.
To my mind, they are the worst threat to the UK's well being from when Seelowe was looming on the other side of the Channel.

Gabriele wrote:I have zero clue why anyone in their sane mind, and i mean anyone, would vote for this bunch.
To my mind, they are the worst threat to the UK's well being from when Seelowe was looming on the other side of the Channel.

<<Looks at the current government and it's two most recent predecessors>> Huh.

This is a compilation of the biggest fails of the British political left including Labour and Green MPs, as well as Owen Jones.

Thanks for the Diane Abbott "promotional speech" for Mao... had already forgotten that one!

Those were the days when you could just smile away any (such, or other) lunacies being presented - and the audience would agree with you. Any fact-based discussions, these days, seem to be difficult to get into

Tom Watson has quit as deputy Labour leader and also as an MP.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50325666

SKB wrote:Tom Watson has quit as deputy Labour leader and also as an MP.

Shame really as he was my local MP and served local community well.

bobp wrote:

SKB wrote:Tom Watson has quit as deputy Labour leader and also as an MP.

Shame really as he was my local MP and served local community well.

May have "something" to do with Corbyn's edict "you must obey me on Brexit" as Watson was the one who earlier this year set up a group of centre-left Labour MPs who felt excluded from the party’s policymaking.
- wonder what will happen to that one now
- the same as with the one-nation Tory group?

set up a group of centre-left Labour MPs who felt excluded from the party’s policymaking.
- wonder what will happen to that one now

hadn't realised it was this well subscribed to: "a third of the parliamentary party joined his Future Britain Group earlier this year to stop centrists fleeing to the short-lived Independent Group"

https://news.sky.com/video/ian-austin-i ... g-11856227

“Bolshevik” means “majority” whereas “Menshevik” means “minority” – even though in Labour reality (as in the historic precedent) Mensheviks were the majority. The two groups because of their divergent opinions and the discrepancies between their leaders are now dividing, or about to.

Leading into this definitive division, it was preceded by several turbulent conferences and confrontations.

A party that let's itself to be taken over from the inside... how could we trust the running of the country to it?
- ohh, what happened to the other major party

General election 2019: Labour launches 'radical' manifesto
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50497288

It includes "a pledge to renew the Trident nuclear deterrent and spend at least 2% of GDP on defence".

The Armchair Soldier wrote:a pledge to renew the Trident nuclear deterrent

No almost-the-length-of-the-parliament study into alternatives included?

ArmChairCivvy wrote:

The Armchair Soldier wrote:a pledge to renew the Trident nuclear deterrent

No almost-the-length-of-the-parliament study into alternatives included?

There we go: "Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP have hinted a commitment to scrapping the UK's Trident nuclear missiles will be the price of their support for a minority government led by Jeremy Corbyn."
- not quite as stretched out, though

ArmChairCivvy wrote:

ArmChairCivvy wrote:

The Armchair Soldier wrote:a pledge to renew the Trident nuclear deterrent

No almost-the-length-of-the-parliament study into alternatives included?

There we go: "Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP have hinted a commitment to scrapping the UK's Trident nuclear missiles will be the price of their support for a minority government led by Jeremy Corbyn."
- not quite as stretched out, though

If she puts this up instead of a second Scottish Referendum as her price, Corbyn should throw an all-night party. A commitment on Trident can be gone back on, delayed, ignored, etc a lot more easily than a commitment to another Scottish vote. Hell, Sturgeon would probably rather the did so that should could run against him on Trident next go-round rather than having to spend a lot of political time and effort trying to pass Independence 2 Electric Boogaloo.

Someone who dosnt understand the word Deterrence

If she gets her way on ind 2 how can she push for NATO or even the EU defence umbrella when it will have nuclear weapons avalible to them under the US or France . Hypocrites

Assume for a moment that Labour does well enough to deny Boris the majority, the sole reason for launching the election.

Will we see the same kind of puppet show that we had with the DUP dangling Mrs May? Just with the SNP in that role and Mr Corbyn having 'strings attached' to him?
- unlikely (leaving the headline-grabbing Indyrefs and Tridents aside)
- which neatly takes us to what the Lib Dems have said in earnest, namely that they couldn't support a Jeremy Corbyn led government... quite tricky then; who could be in the lead of such a coalition?

A future like the one above might be so unappetising that it explains the answer when Paul Waugh " today [Wednesday, that was] (I) asked him [Mr Corbyn], given his repeated line that this election is not about him but about Labour, if he agreed with Lord Kerslake that his own leadership should form part of conversations with smaller parties (ie ‘on the table’, you might say) in any hung parliament. Corbyn instead said: “We’re fighting this election to win it. We are not fighting it to do a deal with other parties.” That didn’t sound like a denial."

Corbyn now wants all natural gas powered hot water heaters and central heating removed from ALL UK houses.

SKB wrote:all natural gas powered hot water heaters and central heating removed from ALL UK houses.

This is what happens when you send junior party apparatchiks on a tour of Europe, to find good things and any such are then sewn together, in a hurry - did the party the higher ranks of management, the "nomenklatura", not have time, or competence, to check for overall consistency of the 100 pages or so?

There are places where long-term planning is actually practised, like in the Nordic countries... much more need for heating there, too:
"Sweden’s shift from oil to district heating in the early 1990’s is perhaps the single most important factor in explaining the country’s reduced greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions, both in the housing and service sector. Today, district heating accounts for more than 80 per cent of the heat and hot water provided to Sweden’s apartment blocks.

Centralising the way buildings are heated and cooled through a main source means that the central plant can be advanced to use more sustainable and clean forms of fuel. Many district heating networks also make use of recycled heat from industries – energy that would otherwise go to waste."
-focus groups must have listed climate change... surprisingly ... as one of the top election items and then the instruction became: Quick! Anything you can find, throw it in there [to tick all the boxes; was this one costed , btw? ]