Labour Party

For discussions on politics and current events.
User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 16312
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
United Kingdom

Re: Labour Party

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Reflection... and more reflection, but who will be the runners up when the starter pistol is fired? Rebecca Long-Bailey (John McDonnell in disguise), shadow secretaries Keir Starmer and Emily Thornberry - the latter two should benefit from their low-vis attires during the campaign - and Jess Phillips, who comes with established credentials of being a fierce critic of Corbyn (and somehow did not get shunted out of the party :) ).

Ohh! and one more piece of good news from the election: Laura Pidcock lost her seat, but perhaps the NEC will engineer a way to bring her into the race :shh:
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

User avatar
Gabriele
Senior Member
Posts: 1998
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 18:53
Contact:
Italy

Re: Labour Party

Post by Gabriele »

May some much needed cleansing begin! I'd like to have an opposition party which does not feel like an IRA cell ready to wreck the country.
You might also know me as Liger30, from that great forum than MP.net was.

Arma Pacis Fulcra.
Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum

User avatar
SKB
Senior Member
Posts: 7931
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 18:35
England

Re: Labour Party

Post by SKB »

Jeremy Corbyn to step down

(Sky News) 13th December 2019

User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 16312
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
United Kingdom

Re: Labour Party

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Lots of colourful descriptions of the head-on collision of the PLP and the leadership that sanctioned the far-left take-over of the party machinery
- it is now that machinery, though, that is steering the leadership competition
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 16312
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
United Kingdom

Re: Labour Party

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

When I read the Guardian article/ declaration I was at first wondering about where she (Thornberry) was coming from:
" just remember that in 1906, six years after the last single-issue election, the Liberal opposition won a majority of 124, with the Tories losing 246 seats. Why? Because the Tories were
- totally divided over trade policy, and because
- their “single issue” (of the Boer war) had turned into a :lol: disaster."

Then,

"When I faced Johnson for the entire two years he was foreign secretary,I took the fight to him every day, and pummelled him every week"

she (Thornberry) actually reminded me of the best teacher we still joke about, decades later... that her real career perhaps could have been :?: in boxing.
- well, enough of 'could have beens' and over to 'what is it to be'
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

User avatar
SKB
Senior Member
Posts: 7931
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 18:35
England

Re: Labour Party

Post by SKB »


:lol: :mrgreen:

User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 16312
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
United Kingdom

Re: Labour Party

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

The chess board is being ordered (and the attempt to pre-arrange it has been pre-empted: Labour’s general secretary Jennie Formby and Corbyn’s chief of staff Karie Murphy have backed off plans (revealed by HuffPost, who also got their hands on this latest internal communication) for a radical reorganisation of party staff, for the review to only start under the new leader.

Keir Starmer appointed Simon Fletcher, a former key aide to Jeremy Corbyn (got him elected leader, but later quit the leader's office, with an interesting letter about the machinations in there) , while Rebecca Long Bailey got her own campaign director, Momentum’s Jon Lansman... talk about :) machinations.
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

User avatar
SKB
Senior Member
Posts: 7931
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 18:35
England

Re: Labour Party

Post by SKB »

Waynetta Slob (Jess Phillips) has quit the Labour leadership contest.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51195059

User avatar
SKB
Senior Member
Posts: 7931
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 18:35
England

Re: Labour Party

Post by SKB »

Here's a photo of that infamous note left by the Chancellor of the Exchequer in 2010, when Labour lost the 2010 General Election.

Image
Dear Chief Secretary,

I'm afraid there is no money.

Kind regards - and good luck!

Alistair Darling

User avatar
SKB
Senior Member
Posts: 7931
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 18:35
England

Re: Labour Party

Post by SKB »

Emily Thornberry is out of Labour's leadership contest after lacking the necessary votes for the next round.
:lol: :mrgreen:

User avatar
Pseudo
Senior Member
Posts: 1732
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 21:37
Tuvalu

Re: Labour Party

Post by Pseudo »

SKB wrote:Here's a photo of that infamous note left by the Chancellor of the Exchequer in 2010, when Labour lost the 2010 General Election.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EJw3bdxW4AA7KvQ.jpg
Dear Chief Secretary,

I'm afraid there is no money.

Kind regards - and good luck!

Alistair Darling
Alistair Darling didn't leave that particular note that echoed Reginald Maudling's note to James Callaghan after the Conservatives' defeat at the 1964 election which read "Good luck, old cock ... Sorry to leave it in such a mess."
SKB wrote:Emily Thornberry is out of Labour's leadership contest after lacking the necessary votes for the next round.
:lol: :mrgreen:
That's a shame, she was doing a good job of calling out Long-Bailey allowing Nandy and Starmer to keep their hands clean.

User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 16312
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
United Kingdom

Re: Labour Party

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Kuenssberg writes in the Lisa Nandy interview
"she has been the most willing to speak out about the mistakes the party made in recent years.

That's been easier for her as she quit the party's leadership team.

The others have tiptoed around what went wrong"

Nandy's role in the race could shape up to be like E. Warren's in the Democratic primaries:
- speaks the truth (in question format) about one candidate's policies/ background (Bloomberg took that hit)
- once the credibility (of one candidate) is gone, the front solidifies behind the leading candidate

A modern-day "Road to Damascus" watershed moment within Labour? Let's try to win elections, rather than being a talking shop, to make some Islington people feel good (about themselves, I dare to add)
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

User avatar
SKB
Senior Member
Posts: 7931
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 18:35
England

Re: Labour Party

Post by SKB »

Image




User avatar
SKB
Senior Member
Posts: 7931
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 18:35
England

Re: Labour Party

Post by SKB »

So the 'progressive' lefties elected the millionaire white man with a knighthood...
:lol: :mrgreen:

User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 16312
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
United Kingdom

Re: Labour Party

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

" Starmer backer, Brownite John Healey, is now shadow defence secretary"
... anyone know anything about how he might qualify (only asking as haven't come across the name before: Jim Murphy was booted out by Scottish Labour and I guess Dan Jarvis is growing at a compounded interest 'rate' as a northern Mayor in Sheffield, rather than shadow boxing in Westmister)
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

User avatar
SKB
Senior Member
Posts: 7931
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 18:35
England

Re: Labour Party

Post by SKB »

Jeremy Corbyn suspended from Labour Party over antisemitism report reaction.
https://news.sky.com/story/jeremy-corby ... y-12117833

User avatar
Zero Gravitas
Member
Posts: 293
Joined: 06 May 2015, 22:36
United Kingdom

Re: Labour Party

Post by Zero Gravitas »

Will this cause a bit of a labour civil war? Maybe. But if you’ve got to have that civil war no one will be paying as much attention right now as they might have.

Suspect this will look like ‘strong’ leadership to voters.

If the left of the Labour Party splits off into some sort of SWP a-like party that’s good for the centre leftists electability in Labour.

Labour centre left retains the Labour ‘brand’ and comprehensively beats the hard left (with a little help from the electorate) once more?

User avatar
RichardIC
Senior Member
Posts: 1371
Joined: 10 May 2015, 16:59
United Kingdom

Re: Labour Party

Post by RichardIC »

Zero Gravitas wrote:Will this cause a bit of a labour civil war? Maybe. But if you’ve got to have that civil war no one will be paying as much attention right now as they might have.

Suspect this will look like ‘strong’ leadership to voters.

If the left of the Labour Party splits off into some sort of SWP a-like party that’s good for the centre leftists electability in Labour.

Labour centre left retains the Labour ‘brand’ and comprehensively beats the hard left (with a little help from the electorate) once more?
Corbyn's comments today were either a direct provocation to see whether Starmer had the balls to suspend him. Or he is utterly self deluded and has a total and unshakable belief that he's incapable of doing anything wrong.

Either way it's a giant FU to the Jewish community in this country.

Hopefully this will now lead to Corbyn's full expulsion and a mass exodus (no pun intended) of the loons that follow him.

I may actually consider joining the Labour Party if that happens, and I'm a former card-carrying Tory who doesn't consider themselves remotely Left.

User avatar
Pseudo
Senior Member
Posts: 1732
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 21:37
Tuvalu

Re: Labour Party

Post by Pseudo »

Zero Gravitas wrote:Will this cause a bit of a labour civil war? Maybe. But if you’ve got to have that civil war no one will be paying as much attention right now as they might have.
Frankly, as long as Corbyn remains a member of the party then there'll always be a Corbynista sect that is determined to undermine the current leadership. It'll be a massive pain in the arse to chuck him out and it'll be a big distraction for a while but the way I see it it's better to get it over and done with three years until the next election than draw out the division and backbiting which is what will put off swing voters.
If the left of the Labour Party splits off into some sort of SWP a-like party that’s good for the centre leftists electability in Labour.
At the very most I'd be pretty indifferent to that happening. I'm fairly sure that if that were to happen the splitters would be surprised at how few of them there are and since most of the MP's who would be most likely (but not very likely) to follow are in very safe seats it'd give Labour the chance to get more moderate MP's in to those seats at the next election. That's why I don't see it happening. Those MP's are effectively in jobs for life that they know they'd lose if they split from the party.

User avatar
RichardIC
Senior Member
Posts: 1371
Joined: 10 May 2015, 16:59
United Kingdom

Re: Labour Party

Post by RichardIC »

Pseudo wrote:Frankly, as long as Corbyn remains a member of the party then there'll always be a Corbynista sect that is determined to undermine the current leadership. It'll be a massive pain in the arse to chuck him out and it'll be a big distraction for a while but the way I see it it's better to get it over and done with three years until the next election than draw out the division and backbiting which is what will put off swing voters.
Exactly that.

User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 16312
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
United Kingdom

Re: Labour Party

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

RichardIC wrote:a former card-carrying Tory who doesn't consider themselves remotely Left.
The 'centre' is unoccupied... is that the first lesson (as for 'not to') in politics... or football?
Pseudo wrote:get it over and done with three years until the next election
i.e the last moment to do it, if at all
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

User avatar
Zero Gravitas
Member
Posts: 293
Joined: 06 May 2015, 22:36
United Kingdom

Re: Labour Party

Post by Zero Gravitas »

RichardIC wrote: he is utterly self deluded and has a total and unshakable belief that he's incapable of doing anything wrong.

User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 16312
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
United Kingdom

Re: Labour Party

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

From Sky's analysis piece
" the battle could very well end up in court.

The Corbyn inner circle believes Sir Keir, the former Director of Public Prosecutions, is in "big trouble" and on "dodgy legal[ :) ] ground".["]

The benefit to the public would be to get to see how big a 'white wash' the previous report was and who effectively presided over it.
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 16312
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
United Kingdom

Re: Labour Party

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Well, a month to go and not that much campaigning seen from either side?

From keeping the country together:
" there’s a feeling that the rot may finally be stopped in an area that has hamstrung Labour leaders since Ed Miliband. One senior ally says that the significance of the move has yet to be appreciated, or what it says about Starmer’s growing confidence to be more “political”. “I think the most important thing is the change of leader in Scotland that Keir brought about,” they say. “Because of the way that was handled, it’s not well understood that Keir was active in bringing that about.

“And it’s incredibly significant for the future of the entire country. Keeping the UK together may come down to that one decision, to not just let nature take its course under Richard Leonard but to intervene, and prevent hopefully an SNP majority or majority for an indyref."
-may be (that's from a HuffPost summary of the first year under new leadership)
- but will the voters notice/ be aware?
- on the other hand the Tory moves to defend the Union have descended in a chaos that produces no (visible) output; whereas the output on another front of keeping the country together - race relations - has been visible indeed
... the old adage about winning is saying that you need to pick your fights carefully

To keeping the party together:
From the same sounding of views, and about getting the previous Albatros off around the party's neck, the centrist Labour First group says "there has been a grassroots shift that Starmer has to reflect. “This Labour Party is not the same Labour Party that it was in December 2019 because approximately 100,000 new members have joined or returned, enthused by Keir and approximately 100,000 of the people most dogmatically supportive of Corbyn have left.

The net result is a Labour Party with a membership it can be prouder of"
... and who are more representative of the voters that will need to be won over
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

User avatar
Pseudo
Senior Member
Posts: 1732
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 21:37
Tuvalu

Re: Labour Party

Post by Pseudo »

ArmChairCivvy wrote:Well, a month to go and not that much campaigning seen from either side?

From keeping the country together:
" there’s a feeling that the rot may finally be stopped in an area that has hamstrung Labour leaders since Ed Miliband. One senior ally says that the significance of the move has yet to be appreciated, or what it says about Starmer’s growing confidence to be more “political”. “I think the most important thing is the change of leader in Scotland that Keir brought about,” they say. “Because of the way that was handled, it’s not well understood that Keir was active in bringing that about.

“And it’s incredibly significant for the future of the entire country. Keeping the UK together may come down to that one decision, to not just let nature take its course under Richard Leonard but to intervene, and prevent hopefully an SNP majority or majority for an indyref."
-may be (that's from a HuffPost summary of the first year under new leadership)
- but will the voters notice/ be aware?
- on the other hand the Tory moves to defend the Union have descended in a chaos that produces no (visible) output; whereas the output on another front of keeping the country together - race relations - has been visible indeed
... the old adage about winning is saying that you need to pick your fights carefully

To keeping the party together:
From the same sounding of views, and about getting the previous Albatros off around the party's neck, the centrist Labour First group says "there has been a grassroots shift that Starmer has to reflect. “This Labour Party is not the same Labour Party that it was in December 2019 because approximately 100,000 new members have joined or returned, enthused by Keir and approximately 100,000 of the people most dogmatically supportive of Corbyn have left.

The net result is a Labour Party with a membership it can be prouder of"
... and who are more representative of the voters that will need to be won over
I watched a bit of the Scottish leader's debate the other night and for the first time in years Labour's position seemed quite clear. Where past leaders have been paid half-hearted lip service to independence Sarwar was refreshingly straight forward that Labour more or less sees the whole issue as a distraction from the real issues facing Scotland.

I don't know if that's going to be all that successful in the short-term leading up to the election, but at least it's a solid position that could pay dividends in the longer term, particularly if Salmond's vehicle makes inroads and some of the divisions within the secessionist movement end up spilling over in to Scottish political discourse.

Post Reply