POLAND

[Lord Jim]

The article says 90M Euro for the four plus training and support package.

[ArmChairCivvy]

I have only read the latter (of the two linked articles):
"Naval News Staff 26 Apr 2019

Leonardo announced today that it has signed a contract valued at approximately 380 mln EUR (1.65 bn PLN) that will significantly enhance the Polish Navy’s helicopter capability. "

[Lord Jim]

Sorry got my wires crossed you are right with 380 mln. Euros price tag for the four Helicopters and "Comprehensive", support package. The 90 mln. Euros was the agreed off set deal. These Merlins are certainly pricey meaning we will never order any more, but it is probably the best rotary ASW platform going at the moment. Would be interesting to see a proper comparison between the configuration the Poles have ordered and the FAA's HM2.

[ArmChairCivvy]

90 mln. Euros was the agreed off set deal

I was surprised about this element as the deal is between two EU countries

[Lord Jim]

Maybe the old ways are the best ways?

[ArmChairCivvy]

It could be that if Leonardo (that does have a subsidiary in Poland) says that the Polish op will be making more parts for their other products, going forward, this does actually not count as an off-set deal under EU regs
- whether the Polish Gvmnt asked 'nicely' for that to happen is 'totally unrelated'

[Lord Jim]

See we aren't the only Country whose Politicians can be sleazy

[ArmChairCivvy]

Industrial cooperation is the new (looser) word for offsets, I believe.

[SW1]

I thought most of the Merlin fuse was built in Poland anyway, has been for ages

[MammaLiTurchi]

Polish Defence Minister announces his country will purchase 24 Bayraktar TB2 UAVs with 4 control stations from Turkey. Agreement includes munitions.

[ArmChairCivvy]

Interesting; what is the nature of the munition carried? Anti-tank, I presume, but what kind.

Separately, I still remember the days when Anka (the drone) was going as well as Emus are flying and Israel was called in, to save the day.
Would not happen today, but the industry is progressing in leaps and bounds under its own steam now.

[MammaLiTurchi]

Interesting; what is the nature of the munition carried? Anti-tank, I presume, but what kind.

Separately, I still remember the days when Anka (the drone) was going as well as Emus are flying and Israel was called in, to save the day.
Would not happen today, but the industry is progressing in leaps and bounds under its own steam now.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAM_(Sm ... _Munition)

Probably they will acquire MAM-L mostly. TB2s only carry MAM family, which do not have a member we would call a proper anti tank munition. Although a type of warhead does indeed exist with a tandem shape, it is not as strong as an Hellfire or UMTAS.

Despite that, MAM-L s were very successfull against Pantsirs, low protected T-64s and T-72s and other light armor vehicles. It has a considerable effect on personnel, with highy effective HE ammunition.

Newer MAM-T is much stronger than L version, and probably has a bigger anti tank warhead. But it was tested with TAI Aksungur (previously known as Anka II), not with TB2.

Below you may see the compilation of TB2/MAM-L combo. Although some strikes are HGK/KGK strikes, many of them are MAM-L. You can see the munition packs big explosive power in relatively small scale.

It is also very efficient against old armor or lightly armored vehicles. For modern armor, new munitions are being developed but I do not think they will be included in this deal, as they are not in wide use for TSK yet.

[J. Tattersall]

An opinion from ECFR

Charting a new course: How Poland can contribute to European defence

https://ecfr.eu/article/charting-a-new- ... n-defence/

[Lord Jim]

Seems to be just as relevant for the discussion I have been having with a emotional German member in the EU Thread. It covers many of the issues I raised about the EUs capability gaps and willingness to spend the necessary amount to close these and conduct operations.

[Tempest414]

If the EU want a meaningful force in the South then it needs to build 2 x large LRGs around the Italian and Spanish fast jet cable LHD's backed by the French LHD's and the other LPD's and LST's with each group having 1000 troops supported by vehicles , Helicopters and fast jets

[Lord Jim]

But the French will always want to be in charge.

[Tempest414]

But the French will always want to be in charge.

It dose not mean the French can't take there turn in command of a LRG

[Lord Jim]

Couple of Videos from the MSPO Defence Exhibition held in Poland at the beginning of September. There are a number of systems that seem pretty interesting, and would be useful to the British Army, some as alternatives to vehicles that are already in competitions for new equipment.

[Defiance]

TKMS have revealed their MEKO-300 based offering for Poland's frigate competition

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... 4XWHXP5HPg

Pretty decent design that packs a whollop, it'd be a hell of an upgrade for the Polish Navy

[Lord Jim]

A good design for operations in the Baltic, but also able to operate on extended deployments. Again another NATO country bringing in a new escort design that makes our T-31 look like an old colonial "Gunboat" but with a modern look!

[ArmChairCivvy]

A good design for operations in the Baltic, but also able to operate on extended deployments. Again another NATO country bringing in a new escort design that makes our T-31 look like an old colonial "Gunboat" but with a modern look!

Yeah, a frigate size corvette, armed to the teeth:
" The new frigates appear to be outfitted with a multi-layered air defence system that includes a range of SAMs. As a result, the MEKO A-300 frigate can engage sixteen air targets simultaneously with at least two missiles."
- and bcz shore-based air is so close, they figure a hit is inevitable, anyway, and have configured the ship into two 'fightable' zones while damage to the other, of the two, is being controlled... that needs a corvette to be frigate-sized, for starters

As for T-31, yes, Babcock is there (one of the three) and let's see what they can fit their base design with (fitted-for, but without is NOT the name of the game)

[SW1]

Tensions rising on the polish Belarus border

https://polishnews.co.uk/crisis-on-the- ... -citizens/

The leader of the Civic Platform, Donald Tusk, referred to the tense situation on the Polish-Belarusian border in Gdańsk. As he stated, “it may be time to consider whether we should trigger NATO Article 4.” It concerns the issue of initiating discussions between NATO members in situations where the territorial integrity of any of them is at stake. Tusk added that the government “should immediately start talking to all citizens, including the opposition,” so that the public would know what was going on.

At the Polish-Belarusian border “the largest attempt to date by force to enter Poland by force began“- said in the morning the spokesman for the minister of the coordinator of special services, Stanisław Żaryn.

Before 11 o’clock, the Polish Ministry of Defense posted a recording from a helicopter presenting the situation near Kuźnica in the Sokolski poviat. The city belongs to the area under the state of emergency. The recording shows a cordon of officers on the Polish side and hundreds of migrants on the Belarusian side, at the border barbed wire.

[Caribbean]

Hmmm - things seem to be getting a bit heated to the East
https://polishnews.co.uk/crisis-on-the- ... -citizens/

[Defiance]

Poland gets State Department approval to buy 250 M1A2SEPv3 Abrams from the US, added onto this are 25 recovery vehicles, 17 bridging systems and a bunch of ammo

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/4 ... rams-tanks

Can't work out if this are an expansion of their armoured forces or replacing older models, but they've got a good number of tanks in their force.

[SKB]

^ ...and a huge convoy of refuelling tankers?!