POLAND

News and discussion threads on defence in other parts of the world.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: POLAND

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Surprised as Polish proc prgrms seem to have a higher dose of realism than those in many other countries.

Then again Germany has had the "requirement" and many designs to up the game from their Berlin Class ever since the muddled evacuation from Somalia - without anything coming from it.

I have a feeling that the Polish navy will fix its eyes firmly to the Baltic theatre and these designs will have to play to the export market.
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Re: POLAND

Post by arfah »

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: POLAND

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

The Swedes and the Finns would disperse their fleets to prearranged resupply points in the archipelago, in a period of conflict
- the others lack the islands

Coastal defence missiles with a 100 km range abound in the Baltic. You can draw a few semi-circles and see how much "free" space is left for operations
- explains why the Swedes put all their defence eggs in a forward defence (AF & navy basket). NATO on the one side, an army ready to mobilise a third of a million men on the other ( a friendly one, I mean) makes that a sensible allocation of diminishing resources
- also explains Poland's push for subs (which never come cheap)
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Re: POLAND

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: POLAND

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

All modern tank guns are good enough, it is the penetrators that need to be up to the job (from the above link):

"upgraded for compatibility with the newest DM11 and DM63-type armour-piercing ammunition"
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

GastonGlocker
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Re: POLAND

Post by GastonGlocker »

Could do worse!

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Re: POLAND

Post by arfah »

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GastonGlocker
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Re: POLAND

Post by GastonGlocker »

Good point. I'm a bit surprised at the perhaps disregard for history in who to buy from....

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Re: POLAND

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: POLAND

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

GastonGlocker wrote:Good point. I'm a bit surprised at the perhaps disregard for history in who to buy from....
Only about a year ago Poland (PM/ Def. Sec?) complained about the state of Bundeswehr tanks. Now (getting some of them, or more of them) they have put their money to where their mouth is and are spending $4m apiece on improving them.
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Re: POLAND

Post by arfah »

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: POLAND

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Putting more detail about the Leo A4 modernisation here, as the end result will sit between A5 and A7:
- fire and explosion suppression will exceed A5
- electro-optics come straight out of A7

Further main points:
- the Leopard 2PL standard shall include the following:

Improving the ballistic resistance of the turret;
Replacement of the hydraulic cannon stabilization mechanisms and the turret drives with their electric counterparts;
Modernization of the targeting and observation systems used by the gunner and the commander;
Increase of the firepower, allowing the crew to utilize new varieties and types of ammunition, meaning that the cannon will also have to be upgraded;
General improvement of the crew’s safety;
Installation of an auxiliary power unit.

The gun upgrade as for rounds that can be handled was noted further upstream.

The weight limit imposed by suspension allows only for another 4 t to be added and 75% of this will go towards turret modular armour. Bottom armour won't be upgraded, because of the nature of the perceived ops (fighting on home soil) and also due to the suspension related weight limit.

BMS selection for the ground forces in general is pending. so there might be further upgrades to utilise the digitally provided awareness of the non-line of sight part of the battlefield.

Now, what are we going to be getting for our £700m upgrade?
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Re: POLAND

Post by arfah »

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: POLAND

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

arfah wrote:If they're going to wait for a shock army onslaught they'll also need plenty of ATGW, SAM, AAA and ECCM
All in the works, add JASSM and ABM...
- the Poles expressed anger in the early Obama years that they were going to be hosting ABM missiles, but there would be no warheads in those missiles
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: POLAND

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

The turret armour seems to be the same that is in the heart of the Leo2 upgrade package marketed by Turkey:

"The turret is going to be retrofitted with additional modular IBD Deisenroth Engineering armour, placed in a way that would close the gap for the EMES-15 targeting device, however, without any changes made to the special armour insert, except for the gap above."

Probably from reading tanknut-Dave or Deisenroth directly I seem to remember that in the part of the turret surrounding the gun, the protection will be in excess of 1000mm of conventional steel armour?
- no wonder Rheinmetall bought into a JV with them (re: armour components)
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

GastonGlocker
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Re: POLAND

Post by GastonGlocker »

^
Almost 40 inches :shock:

Do you know the repair process if a hit occurs and gouges, spalls armor but does not penetrate?

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xav
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Re: POLAND

Post by xav »

Balt Military Expo 2016: DAMEN Unveils SIGMA 10514PL Designs Based on SIGMA 10514 PKR
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At Balt Military Expo 2016 held in Gdansk, Poland, from 20 to 22 June 2016, Dutch shipbuilder DAMEN unveiled updated designs of its SIGMA family. A company representative explained to Navy Recognition that the updated designs feature more sleek, modern and stealthy lines. It is based on the same hull as the SIGMA 10514 PKR already selected by the Indonesian Navy (TNI AL).

The two designs unveiled at Balt Military Expo, are representative of what DAMEN is offering to the Polish navy for the Miecznik (Damen designation: SIMGA 10514PL Coastal Defense Ship) and the Czapla offshore patrol vessels (Damen designation: SIGMA 10514PL Patrol Ship).
http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.ph ... ew&id=4104

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xav
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Re: POLAND

Post by xav »

Part 1 video coverage from Balt Military Expo in Poland



- DAMEN new SIGMA 10514PL Coastal Patrol Ship and Patrol Vessel
- Some views of ORP Grom Orkan-class fast attack craft (with SAAB RBS15 anti-ship missile) of the Polish Navy
- HSwMS Södermanland SSK Submarine of the Royal Swedish Navy
- Saab Kockums A26 Submarine
- DCNS Scorpene-class Submarine with MBDA's Naval Cruise Missile
- TKMS 212A Submarine

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xav
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Re: POLAND

Post by xav »

Part 2



In this video, coverage of:
- Lacroix Defense Sylena Mk2 multiple decoy launcher
- BAE Systems Bofors 57Mk3 and 40Mk4 naval gun systems
- Thales CAPTAS 2 variable depth sonar
- ECA Group drones and UUV
- PT Pal Indonesia SSV and KCR 60

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xav
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Re: POLAND

Post by xav »

MMC & Remontowa Shipbuilding Unveiled a Stealth Logistic Support Vessel Project
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At the 14th Baltic Military Fair BALT-MILITARY-EXPO 2016 held in June in Gdansk, Poland, MMC Ship Design & Marine Consulting Ltd (MMC) & Remontowa Shipbuilding (Remontowa) unveiled a novel concept: A Stealth Logistic Support Vessel. MMC is an independent design company specializing in ships for the offshore industry and specialist ships. Remontowa is a member of Remontowa holding and a leading shipyard in Poland.

MMC and Remontowa are partner in this project which was launched recently to answer a future Polish Navy need for ocean going support vessel(s). The main characteristics of the vessel are the following: Length over all 116.36 meters; Maximum Breadth 17.90 meters; Displacement of 6,100 tons.
more: http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.ph ... ew&id=4191

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Halidon
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Re: POLAND

Post by Halidon »

That's a pretty interesting concept. One to keep an eye on.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: POLAND

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Patriot becoming more affordable:
"

But Poland’s Patriots will be different from other systems. Raytheon is offering the latest iteration of the Patriot family – SkyCeptor – a low-cost interceptor, based on the Stunner interceptor missile developed with Rafael for the Israeli David’s Sling weapon system. The missile and weapon system passed a successful acceptence test by the Israel Air Force last year and are currently in full-rate production.

The Patriot system is comprised of integrated radar, launcher and command and control systems that protects against aircraft, drones and ballistic or cruise missiles.

The SkyCeptor interceptor adds a highly advanced, hit-to-kill capability, developed to defeat short- to medium-range ballistic and cruise missiles and other advanced air defense threats. Raytheon unveiled the SkyCeptor interceptor yesterday during MSPO, an international defense industry exhibition in Poland.
Raytheon is also developing a new radar for the Patriot system – a prototype mockup that was recently unveiled at the Farnborough Airshow in the UK uses two key technologies. The first is active electronically scanned array, which changes the way the radar searches the sky. The second technology is gallium nitride circuitry, which uses energy efficiently to amplify the radar’s high-power radio frequencies.

Poland requested a low-cost interceptor option as part of the interest it expressed in acquiring the Patriot."
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: POLAND

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

A nice layer cake here:


For the base you take a K9 hull, add some raisins (the as90 suspension system, licensed to Korea)
Whipped cream on top - that is the Braveheart turret
A marachino cherry - the Nexter gun
And of course some rhum - the Polish tactical and fire controll system mixed in
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: POLAND

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Polish SSKs have now (DID of today) been confirmed:

"Poland has announced that they will spend $14.5 billion between 2017-2022, as part of a massive military modernization campaign. The priority procurements for the Polish Armed Forces are to include new air defense systems, 14 multi-purpose helicopters, 1200 UAVs, three coastal defense vessels and two mine destroyers, as well as an undisclosed amount of submarines that are to be jointly acquired by Poland and another NATO ally. "
- partner country for them is in singular, so that leaves it open whether it will be the Netherlands or Norway (both have shown interest)
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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