Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

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mrclark303
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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Post by mrclark303 »

inch wrote: 17 Feb 2023, 23:50 Could they do a pwr3 astute as an interim?
The redesign of the boat to take PWR3 would be so extensive and effectively end up being SSNR.

It's best we double down on SSNR's digital design and hopefully tap some Australian $ too, to get things moving.

By all accounts the Dreadnought programme is progressing well and hopefully we can be cutting the steel for SSNR boat one, in the next four years.

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Post by R686 »

mrclark303 wrote: 18 Feb 2023, 01:26
inch wrote: 17 Feb 2023, 23:50 Could they do a pwr3 astute as an interim?
The redesign of the boat to take PWR3 would be so extensive and effectively end up being SSNR.

It's best we double down on SSNR's digital design and hopefully tap some Australian $ too, to get things moving.

By all accounts the Dreadnought programme is progressing well and hopefully we can be cutting the steel for SSNR boat one, in the next four years.
But is it really case?

I keep see that PWR3 is based on the US S9G reactor in the Virginia-class which has a smaller beam than Astute, so in theory unless it a longer compartment on the US boats it should fit in the existing module for Astute pipe work might be the problem though on how different they are maybe.

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Post by inch »

Get down to plum centre they have loads of different pipework adaptor fittings 👍😉
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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

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R686 wrote: 18 Feb 2023, 02:25
mrclark303 wrote: 18 Feb 2023, 01:26
inch wrote: 17 Feb 2023, 23:50 Could they do a pwr3 astute as an interim?
The redesign of the boat to take PWR3 would be so extensive and effectively end up being SSNR.

It's best we double down on SSNR's digital design and hopefully tap some Australian $ too, to get things moving.

By all accounts the Dreadnought programme is progressing well and hopefully we can be cutting the steel for SSNR boat one, in the next four years.
But is it really case?

I keep see that PWR3 is based on the US S9G reactor in the Virginia-class which has a smaller beam than Astute, so in theory unless it a longer compartment on the US boats it should fit in the existing module for Astute pipe work might be the problem though on how different they are maybe.
The internal rearrangement would be so extensive , the unit cost of Astute would end up being 3 billion each, factoring in the redesign and engineering costs.

I like the idea, but considering the Dreadnought sized pause in SSN build, we might as well crack on with the next generation.

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Post by wargame_insomniac »

inch wrote: 17 Feb 2023, 23:50 Could they do a pwr3 astute as an interim?
My understanding is that PWR3 is too big for Astutes beam. Thus I am presuming that is not possible without redesign; and in which case you might as well be looking at an SSNR anyway.

So then it would presumably depend on how much the SSNR will be based on the Astutes. But that seems less likely from what we hear about likely similarities between AUKUS boats.

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Post by R686 »

wargame_insomniac wrote: 18 Feb 2023, 15:21
inch wrote: 17 Feb 2023, 23:50 Could they do a pwr3 astute as an interim?
My understanding is that PWR3 is too big for Astutes beam. Thus I am presuming that is not possible without redesign; and in which case you might as well be looking at an SSNR anyway.

So then it would presumably depend on how much the SSNR will be based on the Astutes. But that seems less likely from what we hear about likely similarities between AUKUS boats.

If that is the case then that basically rules out Astute for the RAN. It’s my understanding that RR will not be building PWR2 concentrating on PWR3 unless they redesign for S9G which the US boats havea smaller beam than Astute boats.

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

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R686 wrote: 18 Feb 2023, 17:23
If that is the case then that basically rules out Astute for the RAN. It’s my understanding that RR will not be building PWR2 concentrating on PWR3 unless they redesign for S9G which the US boats havea smaller beam than Astute boats.
If RR still have the production capacity to make further PWR2 reactors then they might do so for a small (2 or 3) batch of Australian built Astute derivatives? Would be a decent introductory step to SSNs if at all technically feasible. I am thinking buy some specialist parts directly from UK manufacturers but do the construction itself in Australia employing a lot of contractors / consultants who used to work at Barrow on Astute but for whatever reason are not there working on Dreadnaught or can be spared for six month stints away from the SSBN project.

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Post by R686 »

Phil Sayers wrote: 18 Feb 2023, 17:37
R686 wrote: 18 Feb 2023, 17:23
If that is the case then that basically rules out Astute for the RAN. It’s my understanding that RR will not be building PWR2 concentrating on PWR3 unless they redesign for S9G which the US boats havea smaller beam than Astute boats.
If RR still have the production capacity to make further PWR2 reactors then they might do so for a small (2 or 3) batch of Australian built Astute derivatives? Would be a decent introductory step to SSNs if at all technically feasible. I am thinking buy some specialist parts directly from UK manufacturers but do the construction itself in Australia employing a lot of contractors / consultants who used to work at Barrow on Astute but for whatever reason are not there working on Dreadnaught or can be spared for six month stints away from the SSBN project.
If they have already made the switch would they considering the long lead items?

I think someone said that the long-lead items were ordered in 2012 for Agamemnon for the PWR2reactors in any case if they ordered now, it would be 2032 before the reactors arrived is that the case......10 years to build a submarine reactor?

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Post by wargame_insomniac »

Another step closer to RN having 6 active SSN again, with Anson being 5th Astute (and Triumph as the last Trafalgar) in service.

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/new-bri ... irst-time/
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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Post by dmereifield »

wargame_insomniac wrote: 19 Feb 2023, 16:04 Another step closer to RN having 6 active SSN again, with Anson being 5th Astute (and Triumph as the last Trafalgar) in service.

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/new-bri ... irst-time/
Aren't we supposed to have 7 active SSN?

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Post by mrclark303 »

dmereifield wrote: 19 Feb 2023, 16:48
wargame_insomniac wrote: 19 Feb 2023, 16:04 Another step closer to RN having 6 active SSN again, with Anson being 5th Astute (and Triumph as the last Trafalgar) in service.

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/new-bri ... irst-time/
Aren't we supposed to have 7 active SSN?
It's been a while since we had 7 boats operational unfortunately.

As the last two are delivered, I wouldn't expect the situation to improve, as Astute will be due a counter obsolescence refit to bring her more into line with her newer sisters, that will probably see her drydocked for a couple of years.

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

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dmereifield wrote: 19 Feb 2023, 16:48
wargame_insomniac wrote: 19 Feb 2023, 16:04 Another step closer to RN having 6 active SSN again, with Anson being 5th Astute (and Triumph as the last Trafalgar) in service.

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/new-bri ... irst-time/
Aren't we supposed to have 7 active SSN?
Did you miss the news back on 20 May 2022 when BOTH Trenchant and Talent were retired early on the same day, so that we could crew Anson before her commissioning three months later.....

So for the last 9 months we have been down to just five active SSN - Anson sailing from Barrow takes us closer to having six.
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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Post by mrclark303 »

wargame_insomniac wrote: 19 Feb 2023, 22:45
dmereifield wrote: 19 Feb 2023, 16:48
wargame_insomniac wrote: 19 Feb 2023, 16:04 Another step closer to RN having 6 active SSN again, with Anson being 5th Astute (and Triumph as the last Trafalgar) in service.

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/new-bri ... irst-time/
Aren't we supposed to have 7 active SSN?
Did you miss the news back on 20 May 2022 when BOTH Trenchant and Talent were retired early on the same day, so that we could crew Anson before her commissioning three months later.....

So for the last 9 months we have been down to just five active SSN - Anson sailing from Barrow takes us closer to having six.
As said, I think Astute will be requiring a short refit soon, followed by boat 2, so operating more than 5 for any length of time is unlikely for a long while.

These boats are so technically complex that there are apparently considerable differences between Astute and Anson.

Technology approaches obsolescence so quickly ( it's generally considered obsolete and unsupportable after a10 year cycle) that refits to upgrade and refresh will be constant factors of life.

That's the problem with huge gaps between commissions I guess...

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Post by tomuk »

wargame_insomniac wrote: 19 Feb 2023, 22:45
dmereifield wrote: 19 Feb 2023, 16:48
wargame_insomniac wrote: 19 Feb 2023, 16:04 Another step closer to RN having 6 active SSN again, with Anson being 5th Astute (and Triumph as the last Trafalgar) in service.

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/new-bri ... irst-time/
Aren't we supposed to have 7 active SSN?
Did you miss the news back on 20 May 2022 when BOTH Trenchant and Talent were retired early on the same day, so that we could crew Anson before her commissioning three months later.....

So for the last 9 months we have been down to just five active SSN - Anson sailing from Barrow takes us closer to having six.
Is that correct though? Astutes need less crew than the T-boats so why did we need two t-boat crews to crew one new Astute? More likely cost savings by not running on the two T-boats or unfixable 'serviceability' issues.

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Post by Scimitar54 »

Triumph is expected to go next year, so we will then be back down to 5 (at most) because as has been pointed out above boats 1 and 2 must be approaching the need for major re-fits). This is a ridiculously low number of boats. A major increase in numbers is urgently required …… HMG, please get a grip! NOW! :mrgreen:
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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

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Scimitar54 wrote: 20 Feb 2023, 03:33 Triumph is expected to go next year, so we will then be back down to 5 (at most) because as has been pointed out above boats 1 and 2 must be approaching the need for major re-fits). This is a ridiculously low number of boats. A major increase in numbers is urgently required …… HMG, please get a grip! NOW! :mrgreen:
The only plus side is we have seen the utter ineptitude of the Russians, also apparently Chinas attempts to shadow our Indo Pacific tour in 2021 proved most illuminating.

A single Astute would cause fatal damage to the Russian Navy and I should imagine prove undetectable and virtually unstoppable to the Chinese Navy.

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

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It would be interesting to know what the Chinese knew of the were abouts of our SSN in the South China sea in 2021

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

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As said good news!

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Post by SKB »

Navy Lookout's guide to the Astute class.

(Navy Lookout) 27th June 2023
00:00 - Introduction
00:14 - Platform design
00:55 - Weapons
01:50 - Special Forces operations
02:47 - Optronics periscope
04:13 - Platform amanagement system
04:47 - Anechoic tiles
05:35 - Propulsion systems
08:46 - Control surfaces
10:10 - Escape system
11:14 - Accommodation
12:03 - End

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

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Nice thread about tracking sub movements.


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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

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Victorious and not Victorius.

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

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Scimitar54 wrote: 16 Oct 2023, 23:13 Victorious and not Victorius.
reply there if you feel like it.

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