UK Defence Forum

Tempest414 wrote: ↑15 Jan 2023, 10:22 So how many As-90 do we have and can we afford to give way 30 of them right now unless the Tories are going to get there check book out the army will soon be giving there boots away ( No sorry they already have )

What else are we going to do with them - except melt them down which the MOD is fond of doing ? Other than the Falklands - we dont have any active issues that require conflict in the near term.

TheLoneRanger wrote: ↑15 Jan 2023, 16:01

Tempest414 wrote: ↑15 Jan 2023, 10:22 So how many As-90 do we have and can we afford to give way 30 of them right now unless the Tories are going to get there check book out the army will soon be giving there boots away ( No sorry they already have )

What else are we going to do with them - except melt them down which the MOD is fond of doing ? Other than the Falklands - we dont have any active issues that require conflict in the near term.

I have no problem with sending Ukraine the kit it needs to fight off a invasion but this Kit needs to come from stored kit or it has to be replaced in service so if we send 30 AS-90 these need to come from storage or 30 stored vehicles need to be regenerated and put back in to service the same goes for Challenger it is not as simple as saying the Ukraine army is fighting so give them everything one day this could brake out and the British army will need the kit remember if one is seen to be weak others many try there hand

RunningStrong wrote: ↑15 Jan 2023, 13:33

Zeno wrote: ↑15 Jan 2023, 10:59 Use em where they will do the most good to stop this threat

Sure, stop this threat, but what about the next one? UK capability is going to be full of even more holes if we fail to replace equipment as we so often do.

I am all for using ongoing production lines to help Ukraine but like the Challenger this isn't something we can easily replace. When we gave the MLRS to Ukraine with the theory that we could replace them due to the numbers built but even that looks to have hit some pot holes.

You could make the argument that they are likely to get replaced with the K9 (?) but is this just another Harrier/E-3/Nimrod where we are gambling now knowing that the replacement is down the line? There is only so many times we can take that gamble.

Apparently, per the tweet below, that means UK is giving away ONE-THIRD of it's AS-90's.

If true, then surely that leaves the UK lacking in self-propelled artillery, i.e. those that Ukraine war has show to be essentail because of their ability to "shoot and scoot", which towed artillery lacks.....

The AS-90 first entered service in 1992 its hard to see how long this system can present to combat peer forces, if sending quite a number where they will make an effective force to reduce Russia's military that also opposes N.A.T.O then that's also cost effective

I'm hoping there is some creative accounting going on at the mod with the assets being transferred at considerable cost to the foreign aid budget. When we know they need replaced in the next 5 years it makes sense to be generous especially if they are sitting in storage. For every unit given up puts additional pressure on the treasury to urgently fund it's replacement.

Wasn't quite sure where to put this, so mod's feel free to move it if you want

Official announcement on Monday he said...

On which chassis?

RunningStrong wrote: ↑11 Mar 2023, 19:25 On which chassis?

Considering that 24 additional Archer systems that Sweden is intending to buy are supposed to use MAN HX2 8x8 as chassis, I would suppose UK would go with the same. But I would still wait for both official confirmation for both system and chassis. So far above tweet is the only info about this as far as I can find and everyone else are using it as a source.

Interim solution to what?

I would imagine it would be on an MAN chassis. But as has been said, wait for an official announcement, this could all be a load of botox.

bobp wrote: ↑11 Mar 2023, 20:16 Interim solution to what?

To cover the gap until MFP decide what will replace AS-90, as UK is sending 20 AS-90 from active fleet plus additional 12 from reserve to Ukraine.

Little J wrote: ↑11 Mar 2023, 15:48 Wasn't quite sure where to put this, so mod's feel free to move it if you want

Official announcement on Monday he said...

Lets see if this is true - if this is an "interim" procurement - we can always send them to Ukraine given that Sweden has already provided this platform to them which will help them build combat mass and have some level of standardisation, etc.

I wonder if reserve Light Gun units will be quickly introduced to any truck-based auto-loaded solution. Can't be any more complicated than MLRS surely?

Why would they only be an interim solution?

BB85 wrote: ↑12 Mar 2023, 18:57 Why would they only be an interim solution?

Perhaps because if we're investing in a solution for the future we need to be considering something beyond L52? US army are going to L58 and RD are discussing L60.

Income tax was introduced as an interim measure to pay for the war against Napoleon….

Interim is never interim Just saying

Considering land ceptor ect is on a Man truck this would seem a sensible approach we will see if it it is true.

Maybe interim solution means 25 year service span going forward with strategic 40-50 when you include a 10 year procurement process.

Some more news ...



So basically it would be a battery worth of Archers. Wonder if this would be just a lease or buy out

There is an ongoing argument between selecting either tracked self-propelled artillery or wheeled , I believe we have seen plenty of footage of heavy mud in Ukraine to realise the artillery has to be able to get in and out of areas very quickly ,both tracked and wheeled seem to have pros and cons a question is could it be possible to have both types for the U.K ?
https://www.armadainternational.com/202 ... way-ahead/
https://www.military-today.com/artiller ... itzers.htm

Long term solution is UK produced K9 (Project Thunder). So undoubtedly won't be acquired due to army & MoD incompetence.

Zeno wrote: ↑13 Mar 2023, 12:50 ... question is could it be possible to have both types for the U.K ?

You can argue for both cases but if UK is going to have only two regiments equipped with 155mm than no, there is no point having both types. Just chose one and have uniform system as its total numbers would be very limited. If on the other hand, UK wants to equip its light brigades with 155mm system than it might have sense that 2 regiments in DRS be tracked and 1 regular and 1 TA regiment for two LBCT have Archer-like system or, to be more precise, 155mm gun on truck platform. For TA units it would probably be better if something like MAN truck was used as platform for easier and cheaper training and maintenance. So answer on your question is more related to ORBAT and what will replace L118 in LBCT.

Has Archer or a 155mm Boxer been tested in the desert?

Official announcement of Archer deal

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/brit ... ith-sweden

The first 14 Archer artillery systems will have ownership transferred to the British Army this month and be fully operational by next April, forming an interim replacement for the 32 AS90 artillery systems the UK gifted to the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

So at least 14 Archers will be transferred to the British Army. But it also suggest that there might be more than that. Also these will be from already existing stock, not newly produced which mean they will be on Volvo chassis.

Poiuytrewq wrote: ↑16 Mar 2023, 12:27 Has Archer or a 155mm Boxer been tested in the desert?

Not sure if Boxer RCH155 is tested anywhere outside Europe so far, but Boxer AFV had served in Afghanistan. Archer was tested on Yuma Proving Ground in Arizona on request of the US Army which is the closest to desert conditions I could find. Beside that don't know if there were any specific testing in desert.