Scotland (Political Thread)

[IrishT]

The Irish nationalist gets wet at the thought of Scotland turning its back on the UK. They leech off whats happening in Scotland to feed their own hollow patriotism, which these days is all too associated with anything that appears to "hurt" Britain.

The Irish nationalist sees the Scottish nationalists as our brothers. Our bond goes back to before the Romans, when we spoke the same language, had the same families, held the same culture and even the same name (Scotia major and Scotia minor).

The fact it "hurts Britain" is merely a coincidence. We wouldn't campaign to break Northern England away from Southern England, we wouldn't campaign for the Welsh to annex Cornwall. But we would support the Scottish, even if it would be to the detriment of our own economy (the IDA and many Government economists were betting back in 2014 that if Scotland had left, we'd no longer be the most attractive area for US investment).

Of course, Ireland's well-being is not at stake here, they are comfortably latched to the teat of Brussels and have simply swapped one master (England) for another (Germany). How pathetic...

If Germany was our master, we'd have changed our corporation tax already, something the French are always biting at our ankles about. Yet we haven't. I would much rather a foreign power with no interest in Ireland's daily affairs than England. Our history is much too bloody to forget what England has done.

My advice to any Scottish person, is put your vote to use wisely. You don't want to end up like Ireland.

And my advice would be to do what they feel is in their interests as a nation and as a people.

Maybe Irish nationalists ought to be reminded that Britain and British owned banks bailed out Ireland the total sum of £14bn during the Eurozone crisis even though the UK isn't in the Eurozone. You're welcome.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/news ... l-out.html

And many Englishmen seem to be reminded that the bail-out was a loan, and it was our Government bailing out your banks as well as ours that caused us to go under in the first place.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... risis.html

[IrishT]

Ireland has paid those loans back by the sounds of things and the Irish Know what austerity means. They will benefit from Brexit. But if the Euro goes bad we will dig them out again.

Not necessarily benefit. We're expected to get hammered on trade, though the pick up in possible FDI (it's not certain) might off-set any losses, though I don't think it will do so that much - it's not like the barriers to trade between the EU and UK will be that high.

We might pick up a few hundred (maybe a couple thousand) jobs from London in the financial services sector, maybe a few IT companies will base operations here, but most of London should remain intact and they'll only be using Ireland for access to the European Banking Passports (assuming the EU refuses to allow you them). Overall, we'll probably take a smacking from trade.

Which is probably good on our end, I believe we actually run a trade deficit with the UK so our surplus should, theoretically, increase.

[Galloglass]

Ireland has paid those loans back by the sounds of things and the Irish Know what austerity means. They will benefit from Brexit. But if the Euro goes bad we will dig them out again.

Not necessarily benefit. We're expected to get hammered on trade, though the pick up in possible FDI (it's not certain) might off-set any losses, though I don't think it will do so that much - it's not like the barriers to trade between the EU and UK will be that high.

We might pick up a few hundred (maybe a couple thousand) jobs from London in the financial services sector, maybe a few IT companies will base operations here, but most of London should remain intact and they'll only be using Ireland for access to the European Banking Passports (assuming the EU refuses to allow you them). Overall, we'll probably take a smacking from trade.

Which is probably good on our end, I believe we actually run a trade deficit with the UK so our surplus should, theoretically, increase.

I'd agree with the generality of your posts IrishT .....What happens to the "Financial Services" in London or Dublin however is far less significant than the possibility of re-introducing a "hard" border in the country.
The new PM has been visiting Scotland of late and word is that she will NOT activate "Article 50" until Scotland is actively engaged in the process....Mmmm

[marktigger]

the new secretary of state has made it clear what the UK government wants Ireland is waiting for its government in Brussels to tell them what they are doing

[SKB]

YouGov Poll: Majority of Scots still favour staying in the UK after Brexit vote
(YouGov)

One month after the UK's shock decision to leave the EU, the latest YouGov research in Scotland shows no real shift towards independence. Were another Scottish referendum to be held tomorrow, Scots would vote to remain in the UK by 53% to 47%. The results represent a move to the independence option of just 1% since YouGov last asked the question in early May.

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/07/30/br ... ependence/

[FuNsTeR]

looks like it could kick off, it is a surefire way to antagonise the jocks, maybe that is the plan

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/706046 ... n-Union-EU

[Pseudo]

looks like it could kick off, it is a surefire way to antagonise the jocks, maybe that is the plan

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/706046 ... n-Union-EU

Brexit means Brexit as sure as Breakfast means Breakfast. Will that be a Full English or Continental?

[SKB]

Whats in a Scottish breakfast though?!

[marktigger]

you need to get the People of Ulster to show you what a proper fry is

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_brea ... er_fry.jpg

[FuNsTeR]

much prefer a couple of slices of toast with some streaky bacon washed down with a glass of fresh orange juice

[Caribbean]

you need to get the People of Ulster to show you what a proper fry is

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_brea ... er_fry.jpg

What? No Kedgeree and Devilled Kidneys?

[Galloglass]

The conference season isn't quite concluded yet....http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-sco ... s-37634338

[bobp]

The conference season isn't quite concluded yet....http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-sco ... s-37634338

So the poisoned dwarf strikes again. I was reading yesterday that the Scottish finances are in a terrible position, possibly worst than Greece. If it wasn't for UK financial support their economy would collapse if they left the UK. It would help if the SNP got its act together and set about the day to day governing of Scotland.

Meanwhile in the UK it appears there is discontent from the Civil Servants and Politicians who want to ignore the will of the People. Some of them even ignoring the wishes of their own constituents. Makes me laugh and want to cry at the same time as our democracy crumbles away.

[FuNsTeR]

The conference season isn't quite concluded yet....http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-sco ... s-37634338

So the poisoned dwarf strikes again. I was reading yesterday that the Scottish finances are in a terrible position, possibly worst than Greece. If it wasn't for UK financial support their economy would collapse if they left the UK. It would help if the SNP got its act together and set about the day to day governing of Scotland.

Meanwhile in the UK it appears there is discontent from the Civil Servants and Politicians who want to ignore the will of the People. Some of them even ignoring the wishes of their own constituents. Makes me laugh and want to cry at the same time as our democracy crumbles away.

time to cut our losses and let them go, we can no longer afford to subsidise the jocks, never mind the taffs and irish mob and concentrate on what matters most England

[Cooper]

time to cut our losses and let them go

I'm done with Scotland TBH.

The place and its people have become utterly toxic to me.

I will no longer (knowingly) buy any more Scottish produced goods or services for a start, I'm no longer willing to help pay for a people who obviously despise me because I'm English and who like to wrap themselves up in a sneering veil of self proclaimed moral Scottish superiority.

Lets be honest here, if the people of Scotland could somehow be guaranteed not to suffer financially with independence then they would almost certainly want out of the union by at least a 75/25 majority.

If all that's keeping them in is money, then we're done as far as I'm concerned, lets take the £10bn a year we send up their to cover their £15bn deficit and spend it on the people in the rUK who would actually appreciate it.


As for Sturgeon and her tub thumping threats , it's rather like threatening your bank to take your business elsewhere when you're in debt to them with a £15k overdraft.

They'd laugh at you as they took your house and car, and so should we.

It really is laughable the deluded economic reality that these separatist morons live in.

[JayDee]

Let them go, let them fail and don't let them back why can't they just put this effort into helping the UK thrive together.

[ArmChairCivvy]

All these standard jokes, like the RN becoming like Belgian Navy...

Now we have another parallel: Their national Parliament and that of Flanders voted for approving the CEMA trade agreement with Canada. But the Wallonian Parliament voted against... and the whole of EU will have to march in step.
- we will soon have the same, as the proposals being cooked are starting to be diametrically opposite
- OK, the whole of EU will not need to pay much attention

[S M H]

The problem is that the political fish in the S.N.P. burning desire to be Scottish presidents. But First Minister Wee Jimmiy is manipulating the situation for devo max as U.K. exits the E, U. using the situation Scotland's advantage. Pandering to the parts of her party with rolling referendums until Scottish electorate vote the way we want is not going to happen. I expect that the S.N.P. would only initiate a referendum if they can expect that they will win it comfortably.

[Dahedd]

Cooper, the SNP most certainly speak for us all up here. They just happen to get the most attention. Their education, policing & social policies are falling & disliked by most hence they go back to banging their independence drum to distract firm the failings.

You lumping us all in the same boat is like me assuming you're an English football hooligan.

[arfah]

There's a fair few Scots south of the border so they cannae be all anti English, by the way.

[Dahedd]

I'm so anti English I married an Essex girl

[marktigger]

wonder if stugeron will offer EU nationals Asylum post brexit?

[Gabriele]

I hope (and yet i know it is not the case) that no scottish nationalist foaming at the mouth for Independence claims to care about the armed forces. Because if he does, he truly has no clue.
The armed forces would never recover from the blow of a break up. Equipment wise, Scotland could be given some Typhoon tranche 1, withdrawn armoured vehicles, the River Batch 1s as they go out of service and so along, so it might even be manageable. But the costs involved with the split, the Coulport issue and, above all, the sudden loss of manpower would be utterly devastating.

[Galloglass]

Military aspects of an independent Scotland raise interesting questions. I'm sure the "average" Scot is as interested in the armed forces as the "average" UK citizen.
Gabrielles' post above that "Scotland could be given some Typhoon tranche 1, withdrawn armoured vehicles, the River Batch 1s as they go out of service and so along, so it might even be manageable" does however assume that the "UK" will "give" Scotland "it's" worn out stuff.

Surely Scotland has already paid for whatever the UK already has in it's armoury and any "split" should be by agreement. In fact Scotland pays a disproportionate amount for defence in the UK accounts (which contributes to it's "deficit" of which we hear so much) I looked up some some Scotgov sites to see what was there.This looks like a "Mission Statement" but apparently there are more detailed plans "aboot this hoose" if you're interested.
SCOTGOV:
Westminster has cut personnel in Scotland; planned the closure or partial closure of three Scottish defence bases; and spent within Scotland £1.4bn less than Scotland’s contribution of £3.3bn to the UK defence budget. It proposes that under independence – over a 10-year transition period – Scotland would:

“Put in place safeguards to ensure that Scottish forces will only ever participate in military activity that is internationally recognised as lawful and in accordance with the principles of the UN charter”.

Take over existing naval, army and air force bases within Scotland.

Inherit a share of defence equipment in negotiation with the rest of the UK.

Set its own budget of £2.5bn for defence and security spending.

Build up maritime capabilities, including air and sea-based patrol, and specialist forces.

Work towards a total of 15,000 regular and 5,000 reserve personnel in the decade following independence (from 7,500 regular and 2,000 reserve personnel at the point of independence).

Ensure “the units of the Scottish army will carry on the names, identities and traditions of Scotland’s regiments, including those lost in the defence reorganisation of 2006”.

[Cooper]

Lol..posting Scottish government propaganda to back up your sympathies for a Scottish nationalist cause.


..next you'll be posting articles from the Guardian in relation to defence matters.