Scotland (Political Thread)

[Pseudo]

I'm so anti English I married an Essex girl

Coming down here, stealing our women and our jobs!

[ArmChairCivvy]

Coming down here, stealing our women

May be it was a snatch job and the gal is now living
North of the Border...like Rippon still has a cathedral, but has not had a bishop since the English knights came along (in the darkness of the night) and took away the poor fellow (for having sided with the Viking royalty set up in York).

On a more serious note, probably every region has a similar imbalance
"

spent within Scotland £1.4bn less than Scotland’s contribution of £3.3bn to the UK defence budget.

as CAPEX is centrally spent
... ohh, that ship building, where does it take place, in the main?

[RetroSicotte]

Surely Scotland has already paid for whatever the UK already has in it's armoury and any "split" should be by agreement. In fact Scotland pays a disproportionate amount for defence in the UK accounts (which contributes to it's "deficit" of which we hear so much) I looked up some some Scotgov sites to see what was there.This looks like a "Mission Statement" but apparently there are more detailed plans "aboot this hoose" if you're interested.
SCOTGOV:
Westminster has cut personnel in Scotland; planned the closure or partial closure of three Scottish defence bases; and spent within Scotland £1.4bn less than Scotland’s contribution of £3.3bn to the UK defence budget. It proposes that under independence – over a 10-year transition period – Scotland would:

“Put in place safeguards to ensure that Scottish forces will only ever participate in military activity that is internationally recognised as lawful and in accordance with the principles of the UN charter”.

Take over existing naval, army and air force bases within Scotland.

Inherit a share of defence equipment in negotiation with the rest of the UK.

Set its own budget of £2.5bn for defence and security spending.

Build up maritime capabilities, including air and sea-based patrol, and specialist forces.

Work towards a total of 15,000 regular and 5,000 reserve personnel in the decade following independence (from 7,500 regular and 2,000 reserve personnel at the point of independence).

Ensure “the units of the Scottish army will carry on the names, identities and traditions of Scotland’s regiments, including those lost in the defence reorganisation of 2006”.

Yeah, there's "plans", but they make no goddamn sense. I fully read it, and almost blew a gut at their inane ideas on the budget they proposed.

Just because Scotland was involved in the UK's forces, doesn't mean it could run them. Good luck affording Typhoons, frigates that would require upgrades soon after acquirement and ramping up to 15,000 and restoring regiment cap badges when SNP completely kneecaps the country of its employment with tens of thousands of redundancies, no oil backup and zero care or support for the armed forces.

It's deliberately fantastical lipservice purely to try and make the ignorant nod and smile and shout "YEAH THIS THING" a lot. SNP's entire campaign is based around "repeat something they want to hear and get the fanatics telling everyone the same BS."

[bobp]

SNP's entire campaign is based around "repeat something they want to hear and get the fanatics telling everyone the same BS."

Strongly agree and its pure fantasy to almost double the manpower on a budget of 2.5 bn.

[SKB]

Happy Burns Night!

[Galloglass]

Tapadh leat SKB,

[arfah]

Address to a Haggis

Fair fa' your honest, sonsie face,
Great chieftain o the puddin'-race!
Aboon them a' ye tak your place,
Painch, tripe, or thairm:
Weel are ye worthy o' a grace
As lang's my arm.

The groaning trencher there ye fill,
Your hurdies like a distant hill,
Your pin wad help to mend a mill
In time o need,
While thro your pores the dews distil
Like amber bead.

His knife see rustic Labour dight,
An cut you up wi ready slight,
Trenching your gushing entrails bright,
Like onie ditch;
And then, O what a glorious sight,
Warm-reekin, rich!

Then, horn for horn, they stretch an strive:
Deil tak the hindmost, on they drive,
Till a' their weel-swall'd kytes belyve
Are bent like drums;
The auld Guidman, maist like to rive,
'Bethankit' hums.

Is there that owre his French ragout,
Or olio that wad staw a sow,
Or fricassee wad mak her spew
Wi perfect scunner,
Looks down wi sneering, scornfu view
On sic a dinner?

Poor devil! see him owre his trash,
As feckless as a wither'd rash,
His spindle shank a guid whip-lash,
His nieve a nit;
Thro bloody flood or field to dash,
O how unfit!

But mark the Rustic, haggis-fed,
The trembling earth resounds his tread,
Clap in his walie nieve a blade,
He'll make it whissle;
An legs an arms, an heads will sned,
Like taps o thrissle.

Ye Pow'rs, wha mak mankind your care,
And dish them out their bill o fare,
Auld Scotland wants nae skinking ware
That jaups in luggies:
But, if ye wish her gratefu prayer,
Gie her a Haggis

Robert Burns


Piper's toast

Slainte mhor, Slainte Banrighinn

Slainte agus buaidh gu brath

le Gillean Forbasach.

[SKB]

[SKB]

STURGEON WARNED: Scotland will be at 'BACK OF QUEUE' for EU place if it quits UK

SCOTLAND will be left at the “back of the queue” for membership of the European Union if Nicola Sturgeon pushes ahead with her plans to break away from the UK, MEPs have warned. The fledgling independent state would join the queue behind Montenegro, Serbia, Bosnia Herzegovina and Turkey.

And once its joined, (if it survives completely alone during the decade long wait), Scotland would have to give up its new "independence" and be governed by Brussels. Again.

More: http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/761302 ... ership-SNP

[dmereifield]

The SNP know this, which is why there are rumours floating around that they are now considering advocating joining the EEA instead....

[SKB]

Theresa May believes independence issue 'settled'

(BBC)

The question of Scottish independence was settled by the referendum in 2014, Downing Street has said. It came after the UK defence secretary told BBC Scotland that the SNP should "forget" about holding a second referendum. But Sir Michael Fallon would not be drawn on reports he had suggested the UK government would block a vote.



A spokeswoman for Prime Minister Theresa May later said that the referendum in 2014, when Scotland voted by 55% to 45% to remain in the UK, was "legal, fair and decisive". She added: "We believe that this issue was settled in 2014. Recent polls don't suggest that there has been a big change in the views around a second referendum." The Scottish first minister has said another independence referendum was increasingly likely in the wake of the Brexit vote, but she would need the UK government's permission in order to hold a second legally binding vote.

Speaking to BBC Radio Scotland's Good Morning Scotland programme, Sir Michael said the SNP "need to forget all that stuff and get on with what they were elected to do." But he did not directly answer questions on whether or not the UK government would allow a vote. He said: "We don't see the need for a referendum - this is a diversion.What the Scottish government should be focusing on is what it was elected to do, which is to improve schools standards, get to grips with the problems in Scottish hospitals and reverse the serious rise in unemployment." The minister urged the SNP to focus on their "day job" and "not get into the theology of whether or not a second referendum should be held".

The Herald newspaper said it had asked Sir Michael whether the UK government would facilitate a referendum during the lifetime of this parliament. It quoted the Conservative politician as replying: "No, forget it. The respect agenda is two way.She [Ms Sturgeon] is constantly asking us to respect the SNP government, but she has to respect the decision of the Scotland to stay inside the UK in 2014 and the decision of the UK to leave the EU."

Sir Michael was speaking ahead of a visit to Midlothian engineering firm MacTaggart Scott designs, at which he said the Treasury had approved the initial business case for a training school for naval crews working on the UK's nuclear submarines. The submarine school would be built at the Faslane naval base on the Clyde, which will be home to all 11 Royal Navy submarines from 2020 in a move which will see the number of people employed there rise from 6,800 to 8,200.


Scottish Conservative leader Ruth Davidson opposes a second referendum being held - but said last year that she did not believe the UK government should block one. The UK government White Paper setting out its Brexit plans pledges to "ensure that more decisions are devolved" after the UK leaves the EU. But while the government will "champion devolution", it stressed there would be a "whole UK" approach to the Brexit negotiations.



Ms Sturgeon tweeted that there had been "serious backpedalling from Michael Fallon on GMS on blocking #indyref2" and that he "must have realised what a disastrous move it would be for Tories." She later told Holyrood: "If this parliament voted to have a referendum on independence, then absolutely I agree that no Westminster Tory should stand in the way of the voice of this parliament. The mandate of this government in relation to this is unequivocal - it was the Tories after all who put us in the position of being taken out of the European Union against our will, and with the support of only one of the 59 MPs in this country. Strange is it not that a Tory party that proclaims that it would be so confident of winning a referendum on independence now talks about trying to block it. Isn't it the case that the Tories are actually running a wee bit feart?"

[FuNsTeR]

loved Theresa May putting that wee Jock bitch in her place yesterday should have been done earlier

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... o-sturgeon

[SKB]

[FuNsTeR]

Theresa May should just close down holyrood and other devolved parliaments it is obvious they are causing problems for the UK government

[S M H]

We should give Wee Jimmy Sturgeon her wish but allow the rest of the country to vote. The would no doubt be a massive support for independence from northern England as they look at the disparity of funding caused by the Barnet funding arrangement. This would also allow the nationalists to blame the English for every problem. Even the self inflicted ones post independence no change there. So the internal Scottish politics would be unaffected. But that would stop the revolving referendums until people vote the way the S.N.P.leadership want the Scottish electorate to vote.That would be the first ministers worse nightmare as she would no be able to deflect the problems that face Scotland's parliament that need to be addressed . As britex could not be used to distract the Scottish people.

[FuNsTeR]

a new poll saying it is now 50/50
http://www.scotsman.com/news/scottish-i ... -1-4387435

why doesn't she just call it and leave the UK

[SKB]

Nicola Sturgeon to seek second referendum

Nicola Sturgeon has said a second referendum on Scottish independence will be called between autumn 2018 and the spring of 2019. The first minister said the possible centralisation of power at Westminster, following Brexit, had implications for Scotland's economy, society and democracy. Ms Sturgeon said she would ask the Scottish Parliament next week for permission to request a Section 30 order from Westminster. The move would allow a fresh legally-binding referendum to be held, if consent is granted.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-s ... s-39255181

Can Nicola Sturgeon trigger a second Scottish referendum without Westminster's permission?
The simple answer is no....
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03 ... ndum-vote/

[dmereifield]

Didn't think she would have the bottle to call for it. I think its a last roll of the dice...

[Timmymagic]

Lets just get it over and done with. The independence question isn't going to go away like Quebec did. These are different times. The only way it will is if the independence question is along the lines of 'Vote for Independence or Closure of Holyrood'. Make it a completely binary choice, independence or cancellation of devolution. It's the only way the SNP will go away.

If they want out then good luck to them.

Same with Northern Ireland.

[SKB]

She doesn't seem to understand that Scottish free trade with the rest of the UK is waaaaaay bigger than that of the 27 other EU countries combined.
Scoxit from the UK would be far more damaging to Scotlands economy than Brexit from the EU for Scotland.

[SKB]

Time for BAE shipbuilding to start thinking about a move to the southern half of the UK, our 15 new RN ships (8x T26, 5x T31) should be built in our own country...

[SDL]

Isn't it a law?

[dmereifield]

I guess this is going to throw a spanner in the works for the T26 schedule...and cancelling or moving the work south will just boost nationalist support. Sticky wicket for the RN now....

[SKB]

And just as all the RN's subs are to be based in Scotland too.
Oh, and how do you move an underground SSBN missile facility from Faslane to Devonport?

[Jdam]

And if she doesnt get her way this time how long till a 3rd one or if it does go her way can the pro union people use every little excuse to hold another vote like the snp has?