Scotland (Political Thread)

For discussions on politics and current events.

Scottish Independence?

Political Independence (Retain Monarchy)
6
7%
Full Independence (No Monarchy or Commonwealth)
13
16%
Stay In The United Kingdom
61
75%
Emigrate To Ireland
1
1%
 
Total votes: 81

T-Force
Member
Posts: 42
Joined: 23 Jun 2019, 12:56
Scotland

Re: Scotland (Political Thread)

Post by T-Force »

Pseudo wrote:
T-Force wrote:
Qwerty wrote:Faslane would become a Sovereign Base Area.
that would be a very big mistake, Scotland would not support your claim to be the UK's successor thus you would lose the permanent seat on the UK security council
:crazy: :lol:
Scotland's support wouldn't be necessary as the UK would continue to exist, the only change would be that Scotland would have left the UK and become an independent state. There might have to be a minor name change, but The United Kingdom of Greater Britain and Northern Ireland has a nice ring to it, don't you think?
Russia needed Ukraine's support to retain it's place in the UN security council by agreeing Russia was the successor to the the Soviet Union,

the UK has two signatories England and Scotland if one leaves the successor state is no longer united kingdom, Wales is a English principality, as for Scotland's debt in 1707 the only people in debt were private individuals that invested Darien Scheme, the Scottish govern did not invest in the folly, the real reason Scotland entered the union with England was because we were pressured into it our ports were blockaded then there was Alien act of 1705 to force Scotland into union a large invasion force was also at our border and the union was rejected by the people riots ensued through out Scotland

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_Act_1705

User avatar
SKB
Senior Member
Posts: 7930
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 18:35
England

Re: Scotland (Political Thread)

Post by SKB »

@T-Force

Wales WAS an English Principality. But no longer. It is now a fully integrated part of a legal area called England & Wales, previously called The Kingdom of England.
Wales is not a country, it never has been either. Wales is a nation (meaning group of culturally distinct people with a language of their own).
Wales has no Bank of Wales, no seperate Welsh currency.
Wales has no seperate Welsh law or Welsh courts, Wales is under the jurisdiction of English Law.
Wales does not have a Welsh Parliament, but a regional Welsh Assembly, much like the Northerm Ireland Assembly or London's Greater London Authority.
Welsh football teams have been in the English Premier League and EFL.
Wales is part of the England & Wales Cricket Board.
Wales has no representation on the UK Union Flag (as Wales was part of England when the flag was designed).
HMS Prince of Wales' ships crest is an English St. George Cross with the three feathers of the Prince of Wales.

User avatar
Cooper
Member
Posts: 347
Joined: 01 May 2015, 08:11
Korea North

Re: Scotland (Political Thread)

Post by Cooper »

Have you guys not yet twigged to the fact that your dealing with a fucking moron...

Seriously, stop engaging with it and maybe it'll just crawl back under its separatist rock.

Caribbean
Senior Member
Posts: 2783
Joined: 09 Jan 2016, 19:08
United Kingdom

Re: Scotland (Political Thread)

Post by Caribbean »

T-Force wrote:Russia needed Ukraine's support to retain it's place in the UN security council by agreeing Russia was the successor to the the Soviet Union
No, it really didn't. Ukraine was a signatory to the declaration that ended the Soviet Union and created the Russian Federation, that's all. Russia simply informed the UN that it was taking over the roles and responsibilities of the former Soviet Union, which was approved unanimously and without objection by the UN.

The law on secession from a Union is very clear. The secessionist state leaves the Union, becoming a new country, with the rest of the Union continuing as before. The UK will not need Scotland's permission to retain its seat on the Security Council, particularly as the UK is a founder member of the UN and a permanent member of the security council.

As for the question of Scottish debt - yes, the debt was mainly private, but it was the private debt of many ordinary Scottish people, as well as noble Lords and the great families, who had invested their life savings in the Darien venture. Without English money, many would have been completely ruined and Scotland so drained of wealth, that it would have taken many years of misery before Scotland recovered from the seven years of famine that had preceded (and indirectly, led to) the Darien Expedition. Scotland was ruined, the people were starving and there was almost no tax base left for the King to raise funds to try mitigate any of it (even if he cared to). The only real pressures on the Scottish people were famine and the failure engendered by their former greed.
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
Winston Churchill

User avatar
Pseudo
Senior Member
Posts: 1732
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 21:37
Tuvalu

Re: Scotland (Political Thread)

Post by Pseudo »

T-Force wrote:Russia needed Ukraine's support to retain it's place in the UN security council by agreeing Russia was the successor to the the Soviet Union,
That's because the Soviet Union had ceased to exist so there was a technical question over which state would become the successor state. In reality there was no real question since Russia contained 51% of the population and 77% of the territory of the Soviet Union, Ukraine's support was more of a diplomatic nicety than a necessity. Though, the point here is that declaring a successor state was only necessary because the Soviet Union had ceased to exist, in the event of Scotland leaving the UK the UK does not cease to exist therefore there's no issue of successor states for you to get excited about the slight possibility of some small leverage over.
the UK has two signatories England and Scotland
It has three. You really should be less ignorant of your fellow members of the UK.
if one leaves the successor state is no longer united kingdom,
The other Act of Union would like a word with you, the 1800 one. ;)
Wales is a English principality,
You'd think that as a nationalist you'd have a bit comradery with the other smaller constituent nations of the UK, but no. Wales is internationally recognised as a country and has been recognised as a country in English (and later British) law since 1536.
as for Scotland's debt in 1707 the only people in debt were private individuals that invested Darien Scheme, the Scottish govern did not invest in the folly,
No, the parliament of Scotland created the folly, that being the Company of Scotland that ended up fleecing (pun intended) its investors.

T-Force
Member
Posts: 42
Joined: 23 Jun 2019, 12:56
Scotland

Re: Scotland (Political Thread)

Post by T-Force »

Pseudo wrote:
T-Force wrote:Russia needed Ukraine's support to retain it's place in the UN security council by agreeing Russia was the successor to the the Soviet Union,
That's because the Soviet Union had ceased to exist so there was a technical question over which state would become the successor state. In reality there was no real question since Russia contained 51% of the population and 77% of the territory of the Soviet Union, Ukraine's support was more of a diplomatic nicety than a necessity. Though, the point here is that declaring a successor state was only necessary because the Soviet Union had ceased to exist, in the event of Scotland leaving the UK the UK does not cease to exist therefore there's no issue of successor states for you to get excited about the slight possibility of some small leverage over.
the UK has two signatories England and Scotland
It has three. You really should be less ignorant of your fellow members of the UK.
if one leaves the successor state is no longer united kingdom,
The other Act of Union would like a word with you, the 1800 one. ;)
Wales is a English principality,
You'd think that as a nationalist you'd have a bit comradery with the other smaller constituent nations of the UK, but no. Wales is internationally recognised as a country and has been recognised as a country in English (and later British) law since 1536.
as for Scotland's debt in 1707 the only people in debt were private individuals that invested Darien Scheme, the Scottish govern did not invest in the folly,
No, the parliament of Scotland created the folly, that being the Company of Scotland that ended up fleecing (pun intended) its investors.
the act of union was between England and Scotland no one else, funnily enough the Labour party in Wales is talking about Welsh Independence should we leave the UK, so you won't even be rUK just England no more seat on the security council or the G7, i wonder how hard the pound will be effected by this ? i can't see us using Sterling or the Euro, we might as well use the Scottish pound our banks already print the currency instead of Sterling we will call it Stirling :mrgreen:

https://www.thenational.scot/news/17757 ... ependence/
Cooper wrote:Have you guys not yet twigged to the fact that your dealing with a fucking moron...

Seriously, stop engaging with it and maybe it'll just crawl back under its separatist rock.
oh btw MR Cooper my great Grandfather was born in England with a name like Percy Wilkinson that would be obvious, my brother in law is Cornish, you see i do not hate or dislike the English i want us to be better neighbours than we are now within the UK disgruntled junior partners and instead of blaming the English if things go wrong we will have to take responsibility for our decision making

User avatar
Pseudo
Senior Member
Posts: 1732
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 21:37
Tuvalu

Re: Scotland (Political Thread)

Post by Pseudo »

T-Force wrote: the act of union was between England and Scotland no one else, funnily enough the Labour party in Wales is talking about Welsh Independence should we leave the UK, so you won't even be rUK just England no more seat on the security council or the G7, i wonder how hard the pound will be effected by this ? i can't see us using Sterling or the Euro, we might as well use the Scottish pound our banks already print the currency instead of Sterling we will call it Stirling :mrgreen:

Your understanding of the complex constitutional makeup of the UK is as shallow and uniformed as most (that I've encountered) no deal Brexit supporters understanding of the legal and economic complexities of the UK's membership of the EU.

Fundamentally, wherever you're getting this rubbish from is lying to you. But that's what happens when you fall for populist political equivalents of get rich quick schemes.

User avatar
SKB
Senior Member
Posts: 7930
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 18:35
England

Re: Scotland (Political Thread)

Post by SKB »


T-Force
Member
Posts: 42
Joined: 23 Jun 2019, 12:56
Scotland

Re: Scotland (Political Thread)

Post by T-Force »

Westminster is a absolute mess SNP needs to be very careful, i don't like Boris Johnson ... as for Jeremy Corbyn as PM don't make me laugh, i don't trust him to offer Indyref2 for our support ... pardon my French before hand but the c**t would probably end up bringing in his hero jerry adams to his cabinet along with some of his jihadi pals, the other alternative as ken clarke ... SNP supporting a tory even if it's a moderate like ken clark is highly dangerous for SNP ... i would much prefer a vote of no confidence and a quick general election then our exit from the UK and Westminster delivers what the English and Welsh want ie brexit that way most people are happy ... i know a lot of people in England want the UK to remain but the price is to high for us

User avatar
SKB
Senior Member
Posts: 7930
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 18:35
England

Re: Scotland (Political Thread)

Post by SKB »


:twisted: :clap:

User avatar
Pseudo
Senior Member
Posts: 1732
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 21:37
Tuvalu

Re: Scotland (Political Thread)

Post by Pseudo »

SKB wrote:
:twisted: :clap:
As much as I dislike Sturgeon's politics she's obviously incredibly personable in her element.

T-Force
Member
Posts: 42
Joined: 23 Jun 2019, 12:56
Scotland

Re: Scotland (Political Thread)

Post by T-Force »

Pseudo wrote:
SKB wrote:
:twisted: :clap:
As much as I dislike Sturgeon's politics she's obviously incredibly personable in her element.
she was brought in a wee town in Ayrshire in a council estate she doesn't come from money and she doesn't need minders when she is visiting the public, she has no heirs or graces which very few politicians have nowadays most are middle class or from money,and she is very intelligent that is the main reason why she is popular here

Scimitar54
Senior Member
Posts: 1701
Joined: 13 Jul 2015, 05:10
United Kingdom

Re: Scotland (Political Thread)

Post by Scimitar54 »

Well if you are falling for that one it does not say much for ........................ !?! :mrgreen:

User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 16312
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
United Kingdom

Re: Scotland (Political Thread)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Scimitar54 wrote:Well if you are falling for that one it does not say much for
what the actual location is, as opposed to 'virtual'?

Idle speculation :)
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

Scimitar54
Senior Member
Posts: 1701
Joined: 13 Jul 2015, 05:10
United Kingdom

Re: Scotland (Political Thread)

Post by Scimitar54 »

"Battington" not "Tennis". I'd say hand and eye co-ordination and visual perception must be on a par with mouth and brain co-ordination. Intelligence? Don't make me laugh. :mrgreen:

T-Force
Member
Posts: 42
Joined: 23 Jun 2019, 12:56
Scotland

Re: Scotland (Political Thread)

Post by T-Force »

The largest march in Scottish history took place on saturday through Edinburgh over 200,000 marching in support of Scottish Independence ... akin to over 3.4 million marching through London and it wasn't reported by Sky News or the BBC ... there was so many people the police stated they couldn't estimate the figure because there was so many marchers they don't want to report the groundswell of support for Scottish Independence

Caribbean
Senior Member
Posts: 2783
Joined: 09 Jan 2016, 19:08
United Kingdom

Re: Scotland (Political Thread)

Post by Caribbean »

It's reported on the BBC under Scottish News. From the aerial shots, 200,000 is a massive overestimation of the numbers - probably less than 50,000. Last year, the organisers claimed 100,000, but the local council and police said it was closer to 20,000.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... e-49932819
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
Winston Churchill

T-Force
Member
Posts: 42
Joined: 23 Jun 2019, 12:56
Scotland

Re: Scotland (Political Thread)

Post by T-Force »

Caribbean wrote:It's reported on the BBC under Scottish News. From the aerial shots, 200,000 is a massive overestimation of the numbers - probably less than 50,000. Last year, the organisers claimed 100,000, but the local council and police said it was closer to 20,000.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... e-49932819
the totally partial BBC lol the police said they couldn't estimate the number ... the organisers said they hoped 100,000 would turn out that's where the 100,000 figure came from

double that turned out ... that aerial footage was just a small snippet of the turnout

the BBC are masters of propaganda ... they spend £80 million in Scotland and get £360 million in taxes from Scotland that's nearly a £300 million black hole for them :)

Caribbean
Senior Member
Posts: 2783
Joined: 09 Jan 2016, 19:08
United Kingdom

Re: Scotland (Political Thread)

Post by Caribbean »

Well, the video (taken by a participant in the march) clearly shows the full length of the march - the back end of the march is very clear - unless, of course you are trying to claim that the rest are "o'er the hills and far away".
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
Winston Churchill

T-Force
Member
Posts: 42
Joined: 23 Jun 2019, 12:56
Scotland

Re: Scotland (Political Thread)

Post by T-Force »

The UK will soon be no more not only Scotland but N Ireland also if Blo Jo says no Scottish Constitutional courts will tell him to do it or give Hollyrood the powers to do it themselves an emphatic 48 seats out of 59 the UK will soon be over :wave:

User avatar
SKB
Senior Member
Posts: 7930
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 18:35
England

Re: Scotland (Political Thread)

Post by SKB »


(Sky News) 13th December 2019

User avatar
SKB
Senior Member
Posts: 7930
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 18:35
England

Re: Scotland (Political Thread)

Post by SKB »

To Be Confirmed: Independant Scotland to be turned into Venezuela 2.0 under SNP socialism.

S M H
Member
Posts: 433
Joined: 03 May 2015, 12:59
United Kingdom

Re: Scotland (Political Thread)

Post by S M H »

T-Force wrote:The UK will soon be no more not only Scotland but N Ireland also
Having lived in invergordon for years Ms fish is agitating for there to be referendums until the scots vote the way she wants. But I know ardent Scottish nationalists wo told me that they voted to remain part of the U.K. in the last referendum. That they wanted devolution max rather than independence, she has even admitted this her self. The real prize she wants is the section 20 process being Scottish parliament control only . So empowering them to have never stopping referendums once they get to near 50% on the polls. This extracting as much as possible on top of the Barnet formula funding using the independence card from the U.K.goverment. With the other fish trial a political can of worms that the she has successfully kept the lid on is about to explode.(The Scottish government cleared him) So elevating the rights of the scots to have a independence referendum is the best distraction.

User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 16312
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
United Kingdom

Re: Scotland (Political Thread)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

S M H wrote:So elevating the rights of the scots to have a independence referendum is the best distraction.
Agree; but can that be compatible with Evo max, at the same time?
- the latter does not need to be done through a referendum
- after all, Boris might be at pains to explain why Scotland can't have NI's deal?
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

T-Force
Member
Posts: 42
Joined: 23 Jun 2019, 12:56
Scotland

Re: Scotland (Political Thread)

Post by T-Force »

well the fun begins it's off to the courts we go :clap:

Post Reply