UK Defence Forum

Timmymagic wrote: ↑23 May 2022, 10:39 Any chance of an M777 buy to replace the missing guns? Resurrection of LIMAWS(G)? BAE recently reported they might end production of M777 components at Barrow (which makes 30% of M777) if no more orders were forthcoming...

No.

It would require a complete re-equipping of the L118 units with upgraded tractor vehicles (Pinz wouldn't suffice) and logistics vehicles.

It would also require numbers to grow as the crew size is somewhat bigger than a light gun.

I would love to see M777ER in UK service. I just don't see it happening without a considered and deliberate approach.

RunningStrong wrote: ↑06 May 2022, 11:24 don't agree that a mortar heavy mortar would be something the artillery want or need. It would be an mech infantry capability.

Yep

RunningStrong wrote: ↑06 May 2022, 19:58 MRVP Pt 1 vehicles (JLTV) with limited armour, so probably as Artillery tractor vehicles and with vehicle-pedestal or RWS missile systems.

for Light Forces, yep

RunningStrong wrote: ↑07 May 2022, 08:40 There's nothing light about the wheeled 155 options. The Boxer is a huge vehicle (circa 35t), the MAN 10x10 is massive (dimensionally). Which means your engineering and support equipment grows massively in size too.

Any light force would be using towed Artillery piece or a new 105 SPG.

Yep

Tempest414 wrote: ↑07 May 2022, 13:29 Light

16 AA and FCF = Light vehicles , 105 gun , Exactor

For me the Heavy formations should deploy as full BCT's with the Medium deploying as Battalion Battle Groups ( BBG's )

Agree with that one too (more Exactors needed, though)

sol wrote: ↑07 May 2022, 14:56 With just two AS-90, or whatever 155mm system will replace it, either armoured brigades or deep fire brigade will have them. By "Future Soldier" Army structure, both regiments should be under deep recce, which leave both armoured brigades without organic artillery.

Impeccable logic , and the 'beef' can only be saved by deploying only one heavy BCT and the Recce/ Deep Strike BCT with it... and then going Even_stevens with the field mobile arty pieces
... sounds laughable, but both from the readiness cycles and deployment logs point of view... that could be it. For starters.

RunningStrong wrote: ↑15 May 2022, 17:00 What's so good about a manually loaded 155mm L55 with 18 roads and very limited protection?

Works in Sahel, may be in the Congo and/or Rwanda, too {SORRY, a bit of a cheap shot... but you get my POV on the use of these pieces)

Timmymagic wrote: ↑23 May 2022, 10:39 using legacy sights supplied by New Zealand. Also suggests that we're sending 40 guns...which is 1/3rd of the UK total...

I wonder how that would break down over:
Regular/ Supporting Light Formations/ Reserves (some movement to rocketry there)/ and held in storage?
... I mean the total, from which the third is calculated

Thing is they do not need just a couple of Batteries worth they need Regiments!

From Gabriele's Twitter:



Hope he doesn't mind me posting this.

Can a Chinook carry such a vehicle under slung?

Lord Jim wrote: ↑26 May 2022, 01:28 Can a Chinook carry such a vehicle under slung?

Until someone provide exact data it is hard to know for sure, we can only guess. Most sources gave Chinook sling capacity as 10-12 tons. If Wikipedia listed weight for Coyote is correct, it should weight 10.5t. Add to that M20 105mm gun with cradle is some 800kg and with some other things, whole system could reach around 11.5-12t. So my guess would be maybe but probably not.

Lord Jim wrote: ↑26 May 2022, 01:28 Can a Chinook carry such a vehicle under slung?

Why dose it need to be Air lifted by a Chinook

What I see is this SP 105mm working with the Light mech / Motorized BCT's / BBG's as said a BBG with

1 x Cavalry Company = Jackal & Coyote
1 x Infantry Battalion = Foxhound & Bushmaster
1 x Artillery = 105 SP gun , ground launch Brimstone , Air defence & UAV all based on Coyote & Bushmaster
1 x Logistics support = Man trucks & Bushmaster

Tempest414 wrote: ↑26 May 2022, 11:37

Lord Jim wrote: ↑26 May 2022, 01:28 Can a Chinook carry such a vehicle under slung?

Why dose it need to be Air lifted by a Chinook

What I see is this SP 105mm working with the Light mech / Motorized BCT's / BBG's as said a BBG with

1 x Cavalry Company = Jackal & Coyote
1 x Infantry Battalion = Foxhound & Bushmaster
1 x Artillery = 105 SP gun , ground launch Brimstone , Air defence & UAV all based on Coyote & Bushmaster
1 x Logistics support = Man trucks & Bushmaster

So what's the Artillery solution for the paras and marines?

Well we are back to keeping the Light gun in small numbers outside of this they will need to use a mix of 81mm mortars , switch blade and trailer packed brimstone

And of course guns trailing some kind of semi-soft 'tractor' in Heavy BCTs... as they don't need (I hear!) a protected SPG that can keep up on tactical manoeuvres

Now: Can we do away, then, with
1st Regiment, Royal Horse Artillery, in Larkhill (Armoured Close Support Artillery)
and
19 Regiment, Royal Artillery, in Larkhill (Armoured Close Support Artillery)
as I read from some latest comments that having an SPG platform that
A. is protected, and
B. can keep up with the MBT and AI elements on tactical manoeuvres

... is not needed??? Tactical brilliance, but must be of later vintage than the '80s (he-heh... and all the rest of it)

In the meantime in Ukraine someone just arrived

At least the FH-70 has an auxiliary power unit so it can go to the limbers rather than they having to leave cover to get the guns, Surprised no one has suggested one or a detachable 4x4 version for Airborne and airmobile forces to give their M777 a limited amount of mobility.

Lord Jim wrote: ↑28 May 2022, 12:56 for Airborne and airmobile forces to give their M777 a limited amount of mobility.

M777 is v expensive as a lot of titanium has been used in lieu of steel, to get the weight down
... now we are putting it up?

4RA lifting a Light Gun into the back of a Chinook.

https://m.facebook.com/179759888755443/

There has got to be a better way...

RunningStrong wrote: ↑12 Aug 2022, 19:50
There has got to be a better way...

Like a small tractor vehicle that also fits in a chinook?

4 regt RA are part of the 1st Rifles Light Mechanised battle group so I can only guess that this is part of an ex to replace a damaged gun in the field as the Pinzgauer is used to pull the gun and was it not in one of the photos

Bring back the ATMP!

SW1 wrote: ↑13 Aug 2022, 08:59 Bring back the ATMP!

Genuine question - why was it ever scrapped? Not sexy enough? Too British? what's the issue?

SD67 wrote: ↑03 Sep 2023, 14:13

SW1 wrote: ↑13 Aug 2022, 08:59 Bring back the ATMP!

Genuine question - why was it ever scrapped? Not sexy enough? Too British? what's the issue?

I don’t know.

But all these unmanned things they’re experimenting with to help carry load or whatever just to my untrained eye look like an ATMP. Don’t know why they don’t just re introduce the latest variant of it to do what they’re suggesting and work with the manufacturer to make in optional or unmanned in the future or even electric powered instead of trials upon trials and over complication.

SW1 wrote: ↑03 Sep 2023, 14:46
I don’t know.

But all these unmanned things they’re experimenting with to help carry load or whatever just to my untrained eye look like an ATMP. Don’t know why they don’t just re introduce the latest variant of it to do what they’re suggesting and work with the manufacturer to make in optional or unmanned in the future or even electric powered instead of trials upon trials and over complication.

One of the issues with ATMP was the chain drive system. But with the new eATMP that removes that point of failure completely. A hybrid version with a small diesel genset to recharge the batteries would be absolutely ideal. Quiet when you need it to be, but with the range of IC. The amount of torque delivered by the in hub electrical motors would be enormous.

Timmymagic wrote: ↑03 Sep 2023, 18:38

SW1 wrote: ↑03 Sep 2023, 14:46
I don’t know.

But all these unmanned things they’re experimenting with to help carry load or whatever just to my untrained eye look like an ATMP. Don’t know why they don’t just re introduce the latest variant of it to do what they’re suggesting and work with the manufacturer to make in optional or unmanned in the future or even electric powered instead of trials upon trials and over complication.

One of the issues with ATMP was the chain drive system. But with the new eATMP that removes that point of failure completely. A hybrid version with a small diesel genset to recharge the batteries would be absolutely ideal. Quiet when you need it to be, but with the range of IC. The amount of torque delivered by the in hub electrical motors would be enormous.

Not to mention the potential for adaptability; Electric drive trains are without a doubt probably the dominant and will stay the dominant drive train for a long time. That technology is pretty much at the top of its S curve, or as good as it needs to be. The problem right now is power storage density, which is still in development. By having a separate drive train and power storage, it means now we can use the proven power storage system, petroleum. In the future when technology advances, it will be much easier to change to power storage. Whether that be future battery technology, or whatever, it is far more flexible.

Timmymagic wrote: ↑03 Sep 2023, 18:38

SW1 wrote: ↑03 Sep 2023, 14:46
I don’t know.

But all these unmanned things they’re experimenting with to help carry load or whatever just to my untrained eye look like an ATMP. Don’t know why they don’t just re introduce the latest variant of it to do what they’re suggesting and work with the manufacturer to make in optional or unmanned in the future or even electric powered instead of trials upon trials and over complication.

One of the issues with ATMP was the chain drive system. But with the new eATMP that removes that point of failure completely. A hybrid version with a small diesel genset to recharge the batteries would be absolutely ideal. Quiet when you need it to be, but with the range of IC. The amount of torque delivered by the in hub electrical motors would be enormous.

Diesel genset charging a battery that supplies power to an electric motor that turns a prop shaft - isn't that called a U boat?

Better add a snorkel then