105mm L118 Light gun

[mr.fred]

Diesel genset charging a battery that supplies power to an electric motor that turns a prop shaft - isn't that called a U boat?

Not really. The U-boats were generally a parallel drive system rather than a series system - the diesel motors would drive the propellers directly as well as recharging the batteries.

Some of the later models had a series system.

[marktigger]

So the L119 osgoing back into production

[Tempest414]

So the L119 osgoing back into production

Is this in regards to BAE setting up in Ukraine ?

[sol]

So the L119 osgoing back into production

Potentially. Seems like current plan is just for production of spare parts for L119 in Ukraine, with possibility for production of new guns, but this is left to be decided later.

[Chris Werb]

Australia has over 100 L119 in storage....are we just providing training facilties and this is in fact Australian (or someone elses) L119?

Hi Timmy. Australia sold its HAMELs back to BAe Systems some years ago and, as the guns turning up in Ukraine have Australian cammo, I strongly suspect those are the Australian built L119 analogs, presumably purchased by the UK Government on behalf of Ukraine. I have seen the claim made elsewhere, but not directly by UK Gov.

[Chris Werb]

Australia has over 100 L119 in storage....are we just providing training facilties and this is in fact Australian (or someone elses) L119?

Hi Timmy. Australia sold its HAMELs back to BAe Systems some years ago and, as the guns turning up in Ukraine have Australian cammo, I strongly suspect those are the Australian built L119 analogs, presumably purchased by the UK Government on behalf of Ukraine. I have seen the claim made elsewhere, but not directly by UK Gov.

Its long been confirmed that all the UK supplied L119 were ex-Aus Army, purchased by BAE for re-furb then purchased by UK Gov for Ukraine. There 'might' be a couple of ex-UK L119 but its unlikely as they were retired ages ago when the final US HOW 105mm ammo was expended in training (they were only ever purchased to use that stockpile up, purely as training guns).

[Chris Werb]

Australia has over 100 L119 in storage....are we just providing training facilties and this is in fact Australian (or someone elses) L119?

Hi Timmy. Australia sold its HAMELs back to BAe Systems some years ago and, as the guns turning up in Ukraine have Australian cammo, I strongly suspect those are the Australian built L119 analogs, presumably purchased by the UK Government on behalf of Ukraine. I have seen the claim made elsewhere, but not directly by UK Gov.

Its long been confirmed that all the UK supplied L119 were ex-Aus Army, purchased by BAE for re-furb then purchased by UK Gov for Ukraine. There 'might' be a couple of ex-UK L119 but its unlikely as they were retired ages ago when the final US HOW 105mm ammo was expended in training (they were only ever purchased to use that stockpile up, purely as training guns).

I knew about our L119s. I think the "Value Engineered" Abbots without rammers purchased for use at BATUS in the late 60s or early 70s had barrels chambered for the US M1 ammo too, but you might be able to confirm or deny that. I suspect they were originally intended for Libya. What I found surprising, looking at the Irish Army inventory the other day on Wiki, is that they have both L119 and L118 in service (the majority are the latter). I wonder why they did that as AFAIK they never had anything chambered for US M1 ammo in service? Also I wonder if they were our old ones? It's interesting to see them side by side as, apart from the visual differences, the L119/M119 has the projectile put in the case and then rammed whereas the L118 is loaded separately with the projectile rammed/seated before the case is loaded.

https://hmvf.co.uk/topic/13499-value-engineered-abbot/

[Ron5]

Possible light gun replacement:

UK’s Light Fires Platform completes first phase

20th February 2024 - 09:01 GMT | by Christopher F Foss

The UK’s Defence Scientific and Technology Laboratory (Dstl) has completed the pre-concept phase (PCP) of the Light Fires Platform (LFP). The platform has been touted as a potential replacement for the towed 105mm L118 Light Gun currently deployed by the Royal Artillery (RA).

The 105mm L118 Light Gun was introduced in the mid-1970s and has seen combat by the RA in the Falklands, Afghanistan and Iraq.

Production of the weapon – the best-selling 105mm gun in the world which has been sold to almost 20 countries – was undertaken at the Royal Ordnance Factory (subsequently BAE Systems) at Nottingham which closed in 2001.

The PCP on the LFP was completed late last year under the leadership of Dstl, an executive agency of the UK’s Ministry of Defence, and during the three-year period a variety of calibres, ammunitions and platforms were investigated.

A Dstl source told Shephard that the result of the PCP was the construction of a Technology Demonstrator Platform (TDP) which aimed “to investigate technologies that could meet research goals set by Army HQ, any of which could be assessed in experimentation for taking forward in development of future Light Fires capabilities”.

A number of work packages culminated in the design and construction of a mobility test bed (MTB), as well as propellant and ignition testing of a new charge system. BAE Systems developed a 127mm stub-case charge system which was tested its Ridsdale Range in the north of England in early 2023.

In addition, a simulated LFP was made within a synthetic environment which was used by the LFP Project Team from QinetiQ and supported by the RA. This was used to perform doctrinal and procedural experimentation, as well as providing comparisons against current capabilities.

Key features of the TDP included a 127mm gun fed by a 14-round magazine using an automatic Ammunition Handling System (AHS) to feed rounds to the weapon. Each round consisted of the projectile and a Modular Charge System (MCS).

The platform was a high-mobility electrically powered 4x4 carriage which had the wheels mounted independently on controlled suspension arms. According to Dstl, this provided improved wading, as well as vertical obstacle climbing, gap crossing and terrain accessibility. Mobility trials on the platform took place at Hurn in Dorset in mid-2023.

While the first example was operated by remote control by a human operator, via spiral development autonomous features could potentially be introduced during the lifecycle of the platform.

There will now be a pause in the LFP as the RA makes a decision on its future weapon and mission requirements.

In addition to the LFP programme, the RA has the Mobile Fires Platform (MFP) competition to replace the currently deployed 155mm/39 cal AS90 self-propelled artillery system, some 30 of which have been supplied to the Ukraine.

There were a number of tracked and wheeled solutions to meet this requirement, all of which will have a 155mm/52 cal ordnance and it has remained one of the big-five high-priority British Army programmes.

[Jdam]

This was shown last year ..


https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news ... -light-gun

[tomuk]

Possible light gun replacement:

UK’s Light Fires Platform completes first phase

20th February 2024 - 09:01 GMT | by Christopher F Foss

The UK’s Defence Scientific and Technology Laboratory (Dstl) has completed the pre-concept phase (PCP) of the Light Fires Platform (LFP). The platform has been touted as a potential replacement for the towed 105mm L118 Light Gun currently deployed by the Royal Artillery (RA).

The 105mm L118 Light Gun was introduced in the mid-1970s and has seen combat by the RA in the Falklands, Afghanistan and Iraq.

Production of the weapon – the best-selling 105mm gun in the world which has been sold to almost 20 countries – was undertaken at the Royal Ordnance Factory (subsequently BAE Systems) at Nottingham which closed in 2001.

The PCP on the LFP was completed late last year under the leadership of Dstl, an executive agency of the UK’s Ministry of Defence, and during the three-year period a variety of calibres, ammunitions and platforms were investigated.

A Dstl source told Shephard that the result of the PCP was the construction of a Technology Demonstrator Platform (TDP) which aimed “to investigate technologies that could meet research goals set by Army HQ, any of which could be assessed in experimentation for taking forward in development of future Light Fires capabilities”.

A number of work packages culminated in the design and construction of a mobility test bed (MTB), as well as propellant and ignition testing of a new charge system. BAE Systems developed a 127mm stub-case charge system which was tested its Ridsdale Range in the north of England in early 2023.

In addition, a simulated LFP was made within a synthetic environment which was used by the LFP Project Team from QinetiQ and supported by the RA. This was used to perform doctrinal and procedural experimentation, as well as providing comparisons against current capabilities.

Key features of the TDP included a 127mm gun fed by a 14-round magazine using an automatic Ammunition Handling System (AHS) to feed rounds to the weapon. Each round consisted of the projectile and a Modular Charge System (MCS).

The platform was a high-mobility electrically powered 4x4 carriage which had the wheels mounted independently on controlled suspension arms. According to Dstl, this provided improved wading, as well as vertical obstacle climbing, gap crossing and terrain accessibility. Mobility trials on the platform took place at Hurn in Dorset in mid-2023.

While the first example was operated by remote control by a human operator, via spiral development autonomous features could potentially be introduced during the lifecycle of the platform.

There will now be a pause in the LFP as the RA makes a decision on its future weapon and mission requirements.

In addition to the LFP programme, the RA has the Mobile Fires Platform (MFP) competition to replace the currently deployed 155mm/39 cal AS90 self-propelled artillery system, some 30 of which have been supplied to the Ukraine.

There were a number of tracked and wheeled solutions to meet this requirement, all of which will have a 155mm/52 cal ordnance and it has remained one of the big-five high-priority British Army programmes.

Seems an odd calibre to choose why not 120mm like the guns fitted to most NATO tanks? Why use a 'Navy' size?

[Timmymagic]

Seems an odd calibre to choose why not 120mm like the guns fitted to most NATO tanks? Why use a 'Navy' size?

The rational is greater range and payload, but also that as the main naval gun of the US and Allies that there will be lots of ammo developments, especially in terms of guided rounds.

But...I wonder if plans will change...L119, even without the longer range of the L118, is proving to be spectacularly useful in Ukraine. And survivable too...from losses we've seen to date it could certainly claim to be the most survivable towed gun. And I'd argue if you take into account where a lot of them have been deployed (plenty around Bakhmut for example), the number of rounds fired, proximity to the enemy etc. they might be, all things considered, the most survivable gun in Ukraine...

If its that good (as we knew it was already from decades of use) do we really need to change it?

[Caribbean]

Well, hopefully someone will remember the scramble for any useable weapons for Ukraine & decides to put the replaced L118s into storage, rather than scrap them. You never know when they might be needed again

[Ron5]

Seems an odd calibre to choose why not 120mm like the guns fitted to most NATO tanks? Why use a 'Navy' size?

The rational is greater range and payload, but also that as the main naval gun of the US and Allies that there will be lots of ammo developments, especially in terms of guided rounds.

But...I wonder if plans will change...L119, even without the longer range of the L118, is proving to be spectacularly useful in Ukraine. And survivable too...from losses we've seen to date it could certainly claim to be the most survivable towed gun. And I'd argue if you take into account where a lot of them have been deployed (plenty around Bakhmut for example), the number of rounds fired, proximity to the enemy etc. they might be, all things considered, the most survivable gun in Ukraine...

If its that good (as we knew it was already from decades of use) do we really need to change it?

Single piece ammo too which would help the auto loader. Plus longer range available like Vulcano.

[Caribbean]

Well, hopefully someone will remember the scramble for any useable weapons for Ukraine & decides to put the replaced L118s into storage, rather than scrap them. You never know when they might be needed again

The issue there would be the ammo stocks...which is simulteneously L118's big advantage over L119...

But certainly if MoD (and Treasury) are not seriously re-examining disposal policy they're insane. The value of them won't be high, and MoD must have a shed where they can stick 100 L118...its not like they take up much space when they're folded...

[RunningStrong]

But certainly if MoD (and Treasury) are not seriously re-examining disposal policy they're insane. The value of them won't be high, and MoD must have a shed where they can stick 100 L118...its not like they take up much space when they're folded...

You wouldn't store them folded, and you would need to generate a long term storage plan for them too. That's everything from atmospheric conditions to periodic maintenance and conditioning checks, plus you'd have to have a number of spares (like barrels) and consumables available.

I agree it should happen, but it's not a stick it in a shed job.

[Caribbean]

For the ammunition side, then any L118 specific manufacturing equipment should also be stored if/when the plant is decommissioned.

it's not a stick it in a shed job.

Russia seems to be producing large numbers of tanks & APCs after leaving them to rust in a field for 50 years. Ukraine also just dug 10,000 maxims out of a warehouse somewhere to convert into anti-UAV systems

It's not exactly rocket science either (unless you choose to make it so)

[RunningStrong]

Russia seems to be producing large numbers of tanks & APCs after leaving them to rust in a field for 50 years. Ukraine also just dug 10,000 maxims out of a warehouse somewhere to convert into anti-UAV systems

It's not exactly rocket science either (unless you choose to make it so)

Are you trying to have a meaningful discussion or just regurgitate memes?

Russia has neither taken AFV out of fields or taken 10,000 maxims out of a forgotten warehouse.

If you want to stand at the breech of a 105 of questionable integrity then by all means please be the first to volunteer to step into the trails.

[RunningStrong]

If you want to stand at the breech of a 105 of questionable integrity then by all means please be the first to volunteer to step into the trails.

I believe the phrase is "step into the breech"

[Timmymagic]

Russia has neither taken AFV out of fields or taken 10,000 maxims out of a forgotten warehouse.

In the very early days following the retreats from Kyiv, Sumy and Chernihiv they were pulling tanks from open storage with little to no refurbishment. 2 years in they tend to go to a tank repair facility for a modicum of upgrades but in the first 6 months that wasn't the case. Plenty of T-80 and 72 seen covered in rust arriving at the front.

The Maxims were actually Ukrainian...and incredibly there were 35,000...but they weren't forgotten about. You could certainly argue that a lot of the guns found in the Soledar salt mine storage had been though...can't imagine Ukraine had a need for a lot of factory fresh Thompson SMG from WW2...

[RunningStrong]

In the very early days following the retreats from Kyiv, Sumy and Chernihiv they were pulling tanks from open storage with little to no refurbishment. 2 years in they tend to go to a tank repair facility for a modicum of upgrades but in the first 6 months that wasn't the case. Plenty of T-80 and 72 seen covered in rust arriving at the front.

And that's been successful? Sending unreliable, ill-equipped hardware into battle? Perhaps when you want to measure your survivability in hours then it's an irrelevance if you manage 48 hours between maintenance. Why would we want to aim for that?

The Maxims were actually Ukrainian...and incredibly there were 35,000...but they weren't forgotten about. You could certainly argue that a lot of the guns found in the Soledar salt mine storage had been though...can't imagine Ukraine had a need for a lot of factory fresh Thompson SMG from WW2...

And not a shed. A rather unique geological storage facility that has low humidity, low fungus and low maintenance.

Do we have any available salt mines?

[Poiuytrewq]

Do we have any available salt mines?

Yes we do actually.

Quite a few in fact.

[Caribbean]

Russia has neither taken AFV out of fields or taken 10,000 maxims out of a forgotten warehouse.

Thanks for demonstrating that you didn't even read what I said before deciding to be a complete arse.

I think you also demonstrated that you have no idea what has been going on in Ukraine.

Russia has been successfully removing literally thousands of tanks, APCs & even artillery out of open storage, refurbishing them & using them at the front.

Ukraine - that's a different country to Russia, just so that you are aware for the future - has so far used 10,000 Maxim machine guns on twin AA mounts for use against drones

At no point did I advocate that we also store things in the open - as you would be aware if you were capable of basic verbal comprehension.

It doesn't take much to break down, clean, coat, shrink-wrap and dehumidify equipment for long-term storage. If the packaging is correctly done, then the building doesn't even need to be climate controlled

And I got your memes reference - I've got you pegged, tankie

[tomuk]

Seems an odd calibre to choose why not 120mm like the guns fitted to most NATO tanks? Why use a 'Navy' size?

The rational is greater range and payload, but also that as the main naval gun of the US and Allies that there will be lots of ammo developments, especially in terms of guided rounds.

But...I wonder if plans will change...L119, even without the longer range of the L118, is proving to be spectacularly useful in Ukraine. And survivable too...from losses we've seen to date it could certainly claim to be the most survivable towed gun. And I'd argue if you take into account where a lot of them have been deployed (plenty around Bakhmut for example), the number of rounds fired, proximity to the enemy etc. they might be, all things considered, the most survivable gun in Ukraine...

If its that good (as we knew it was already from decades of use) do we really need to change it?

Single piece ammo too which would help the auto loader. Plus longer range available like Vulcano.

A bit of reversal of fortune as back in the day it was the thing to replace the RN 4.5 with the 155mm from AS90 as that was where all the exciting developments were meant to happen.

[RunningStrong]

Russia has neither taken AFV out of fields or taken 10,000 maxims out of a forgotten warehouse.

Thanks for demonstrating that you didn't even read what I said before deciding to be a complete arse.

I think you also demonstrated that you have no idea what has been going on in Ukraine.

Russia has been successfully removing literally thousands of tanks, APCs & even artillery out of open storage, refurbishing them & using them at the front.

Ukraine - that's a different country to Russia, just so that you are aware for the future - has so far used 10,000 Maxim machine guns on twin AA mounts for use against drones

At no point did I advocate that we also store things in the open - as you would be aware if you were capable of basic verbal comprehension.

It doesn't take much to break down, clean, coat, shrink-wrap and dehumidify equipment for long-term storage. If the packaging is correctly done, then the building doesn't even need to be climate controlled

And I got your memes reference - I've got you pegged, tankie

You seem triggered because you've been called out on dripping memes with no basis in fact. Please, carry on.

Not a tankie, but clearly you're not much good at pegging either.

Russia has not had success in storing electrical and hydraulic equipment. Look at the failures they've suffered in every attempt to make road moves.

You can shrink wrap a vehicle by all means. That doesn't preserve the electronic equipment which they are now all dependent on. Even your most basic processor box will have a HUB with a limited life, especially when stored without any power.

[RunningStrong]

Do we have any available salt mines?

Yes we do actually.

Quite a few in fact.

Winsford, and?