Israel

News and discussion threads on defence in other parts of the world.
GastonGlocker
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Re: Israel

Post by GastonGlocker »

Solid points.

The US perhaps in a jam for focusing too much on stealth vs jamming?

I am not familiar with missile homing tech but am curious if there is an autonomous electro-optical option, much like facial recognition programs, to home in for terminal connection?

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Israel

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The problem of clouds... has been solved (not so much of a problem when you are firing A2G):

"Python-5 features a new electro-optical infrared seeker with high off-boresight capability. The infrared seeker scans the target area for the threat and locks-on for terminal chase after the target is identified.

"Python-5 is a dual use missile suitable for air-to-air and surface-to-air missions."
It employs a dual waveband focal plane array (FPA). The FPA ensures the attainment of small, low signature aim-points during day or night in clear and cloudy conditions. The highly advanced image and signal algorithms guide the missile towards the target.

Python-5 is also equipped with lock-on-before launch (LOBL) and lock-on-after launch (LOAL) capabilities. In LOAL mode, the target information is transmitted from the launch aircraft to the missile."

v effective against saturation attacks in ground-based AD role, due to the LOBL capability. Just what the Dr ordered for the RN?
- no, because at sea the missiles (these days) have to be protected within canisters... and you can't see out of them!
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

GastonGlocker
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Re: Israel

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GastonGlocker
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Re: Israel

Post by GastonGlocker »

Israel successfully tests Tamir-Adir "Iron Dome of the sea":

http://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-suc ... terceptor/



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xav
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Re: Israel

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Israeli Navy Tests Iron Dome Air Defence System at Sea from Sa’ar 5 Corvette
The Israeli Navy (Heil HaYam HaYisraeli) has taken the Iron Dome air defence system to the sea and recently completed a live test fire. The naval version of the system will be used to protect strategic assets at sea, such as oil/natural gas rigs. Israel’s hydrocarbons fields and drilling installations in the East Mediterranean Sea have increased the requirements for security.
...
The next step will consist in testing the C-DOME Naval Point Defense System from a ship VLS at sea. C-DOME, the naval variant of Iron Dome was unveiled at Euronaval 2014.
http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.ph ... ew&id=4034

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xav
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Re: Israel

Post by xav »

ArmChairCivvy wrote:
xav wrote:Design of Future TKMS Built Saar 6 MEKO A100 Corvettes for Israeli Navy Unveiled
Image
Israeli web portal Walla! recently published an interview with the head of the Israeli Navy's equipment division, Moshe Zana, who provided some details on the SAAR 6 vessel project ordered from Germany.

Saar 6 class corvettes will be heavily armed: They are set to be fitted with up to 40x (most likely 32x) VLS cells for surface to air missile system Barak 8 by Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) and C-DOME naval point defense system by Rafael, 16x anti-ship missiles and the MF-STAR multifunction AESA radar by IAI.

The main gun is set to be a 76mm Oto Melara Super Rapid (possibly with Strales guided rounds). In addition, Saar 6 will be fitted with 2x Rafael's Typhoon remote weapon stations and two 324mm torpedo launchers.
http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.ph ... ew&id=3029

Is this a new trend for TKMS or Middle East: small platforms that pack a lot of punch (look at Algeria corvettes too)
16x AShM and 30x + VLS sam are nice, but on such small/compact hulls, at some point "platforms" have to matter more than "systems" no ?
Hi Xav, I am pretty sure that you can't get 32 or 40 Barak8s onto that platform, and the source (that did the interview) has got Barak 8 and Barak 1 mixed up.
- quite a different size (and, hence, range)
I had the chance to meet a former Israeli Navy Off. who worked on Saar 6 program (he works for IAI now) this week at a trade show in Poland. I brought the issue to him:
He confirmed the number of silos to be 32 in total. He confirmed 16x Barak 8 and 16x C Domes.
16 cells forward and 2x8 aft (the white squares in the image)

:ugeek:

~UNiOnJaCk~
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Re: Israel

Post by ~UNiOnJaCk~ »

^ I can't even begin to imagine how much that exercise in kit-bashing has harmed things live survivability, redundancy, damage control practices, accomodation standards and endurance...I know they are practically meant to be coastal cruisers for the Med, but even still...It's practically a floating bomb!

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xav
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Re: Israel

Post by xav »

Elbit Systems’ Seagull USV Successfully Completes Torpedo Launch Trials
Image
Elbit Systems completed recently a trial test torpedo launch from its Seagull multi-mission, autonomous Unmanned Surface Vessel(USV) system. The trial, performed out of Israel's Haifa port,demonstrated the capability of Seagull to install and launch lightweight torpedoes, adding to the advanced capabilities of the USV, which is designed to carry out unmanned maritime missions, such as protection of critical sea areas and high-value assets against submarines and sea mine threats.
http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.ph ... ew&id=4135

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Halidon
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Re: Israel

Post by Halidon »

PT Boats are back!

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Israel

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

xav wrote:
ArmChairCivvy wrote:
xav wrote:Design of Future TKMS Built Saar 6 MEKO A100 Corvettes for Israeli Navy Unveiled
Image
Israeli web portal Walla! recently published an interview with the head of the Israeli Navy's equipment division, Moshe Zana, who provided some details on the SAAR 6 vessel project ordered from Germany.

Saar 6 class corvettes will be heavily armed: They are set to be fitted with up to 40x (most likely 32x) VLS cells for surface to air missile system Barak 8 by Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) and C-DOME naval point defense system by Rafael, 16x anti-ship missiles and the MF-STAR multifunction AESA radar by IAI.

The main gun is set to be a 76mm Oto Melara Super Rapid (possibly with Strales guided rounds). In addition, Saar 6 will be fitted with 2x Rafael's Typhoon remote weapon stations and two 324mm torpedo launchers.
http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.ph ... ew&id=3029

Is this a new trend for TKMS or Middle East: small platforms that pack a lot of punch (look at Algeria corvettes too)
16x AShM and 30x + VLS sam are nice, but on such small/compact hulls, at some point "platforms" have to matter more than "systems" no ?
Hi Xav, I am pretty sure that you can't get 32 or 40 Barak8s onto that platform, and the source (that did the interview) has got Barak 8 and Barak 1 mixed up.
- quite a different size (and, hence, range)
I had the chance to meet a former Israeli Navy Off. who worked on Saar 6 program (he works for IAI now) this week at a trade show in Poland. I brought the issue to him:
He confirmed the number of silos to be 32 in total. He confirmed 16x Barak 8 and 16x C Domes.
16 cells forward and 2x8 aft (the white squares in the image)

:ugeek:
Thanks xav, any news on that gun caliber that the various vintages of reports have in three different sizes (for the Russian amphib/ coastal raiding platform?
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Re: Israel

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Israel

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

So, for the price of a HAPC you get two of the above
- carrying 12
- with autocannon, and
- with active protection
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Re: Israel

Post by arfah »

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Israel

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

The little snippet therein suggests that the nxt-gen Israeli tank will be quite a different beast from Leo2 A7; sharing the direction the Russian designs are headed in

"The Carmel is Israel's next generation tank still in development. It is being developed instead of a heavier Merkava Mark 5 tank and is meant to rely on active protection systems rather than passive armor. The expected weight of the Carmel is about 32 tons according to an earlier interview."
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

GastonGlocker
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Re: Israel

Post by GastonGlocker »

ArmChairCivvy wrote:The little snippet therein suggests that the nxt-gen Israeli tank will be quite a different beast from Leo2 A7; sharing the direction the Russian designs are headed in

"The Carmel is Israel's next generation tank still in development. It is being developed instead of a heavier Merkava Mark 5 tank and is meant to rely on active protection systems rather than passive armor. The expected weight of the Carmel is about 32 tons according to an earlier interview."
The comments section interesting on the topic of speed and protection level.

Interesting about handling"most RPGs"

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Israel

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Back to RPGs in a sec, but may be they
http://defense-update.com/20160728_adir_airborne.html
can get another 100 cheaply (the ones destined for Turkey)?
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Israel

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

"The RPG-29 has since been supplemented by other rocket-propelled systems, such as the RPG-30 and RPG-32. The RPG-29's PG-29V tandem-charge warhead is one of the few anti-tank weapons that can penetrate the frontal hulls of Western composite-armored main battle tanks."

The improved version is manufactured next door to Israel:
"First RPG-32 'Nashshab' grenade launchers were to be delivered to Jordan from Russia in 2008, and it was planned that the RPG-32 and its ammunition would be mass-produced in Jordan under license at the JADARA factory.
On 30 May, 2013, Rostec CEO Sergey Chemezov and King Abdullah II opened a production facility for the Russian RPG-32 in Jordan"

thanks to wiki for both quotes...
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

GastonGlocker
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Re: Israel

Post by GastonGlocker »

ArmChairCivvy wrote:Back to RPGs in a sec, but may be they
http://defense-update.com/20160728_adir_airborne.html
can get another 100 cheaply (the ones destined for Turkey)?
Great point. Would rather re-route to tried and true allies.

Reminded of F-14s in Iran....

GastonGlocker
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Re: Israel

Post by GastonGlocker »

Good overview of the Golan area in regards to present situation in Syria:


https://www.idfblog.com/blog/2016/08/22 ... yrian-war/

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Israel

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Picked up from today's news
"the recently concluded US military aid package will see the gradual phasing out of an existing clause allowing Israel to spend 26.3 percent of the (awarded) funds on its own defense sector, which competes actively with US firms such as Boeing, Lockheed Martin, General Dynamics and Raytheon. The 10-year, $38 billion agreement, will take effect in Fiscal Year 2019 and means Israeli defense companies will miss out on up to $10 billion that might otherwise have been spent on home-made drones, missiles, tanks, and other equipment in favor of US weaponry."
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

rockey.udf
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Re: Israel

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WhiteWhale
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Re: Israel

Post by WhiteWhale »

arfah wrote:The U.S. Is criticised by the U.K. for recent comments about Israel.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38464800

Criticised by May rather then the UK, the public is (in my experience and circle of opinions at least) developing a very limited patience for Israel's actions. Netanyahu's recent tantrum and threats of war and sanctions against New Zealand in particular were as well received as a dysentery outbreak.

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Re: Israel

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Israel

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Though an unashamed sales pitch, this one

contains nice detail about GPS interferance resistance and how with mid-course guidance even glide bombs can be potent anti-ship weapons (being much cheaper to procure than equivalent full-fat missiles).
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Israel

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Came across this by chance


I remember the press coverage at the time, differs from what is said in the above, the Syrians saying they did not understand why Israel had bombed an extensive, but disused textiles factory in the part of the country where there is no other economic activity beyond growing some cotton.

Took a while to come to the surface: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-33548065
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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