Israel

News and discussion threads on defence in other parts of the world.
mr.fred
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Re: Israel

Post by mr.fred »

Lord Jim wrote:Thanks, very interesting. Now remind me how many small arms companies are based in the UK?
Quite a few, depending on how you wish to define it. Though that definition may enlighten us on what your point is

Lord Jim
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Re: Israel

Post by Lord Jim »

Ok how many companies are producing high volumes of Military small arms for domestic use and export. Yes I know about Accuracy International, and they now seem to be producing high end precision firearms for just about everyone, but do we still produce Assault Rifles, Personal Defence Weapons, Light and Heavy Machine Guns? We already import the majority of our ammunition from small arms to artillery, and no long produce propellant for these. My point was that whilst we have a strong defence sector the land sector is on life support. With Ajax we are only conducting the final assembly with the majority of major components coming from overseas. We might do better with Boxer if BAe are able to transfer their land division facilities to Rheinmetall and that becomes the main manufacturing facility for the platform.

So for a country that has such a large defence sector and given our historical abilities, not having the ability to build the majority of small arms types required by our military unlike Germany, France or even Austria for example is a black mark. Why are we happy to import these from abroad now with little effort being made to licence a design and build them in country?

mr.fred
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Re: Israel

Post by mr.fred »

H&K UK, in Nottingham.
FNH (formerly Manroy) in Dartford
AEI Systems in Ascot
for three I can think of off the top of my head. There are more.

Or did you want to move the goalposts again?

Caribbean
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Re: Israel

Post by Caribbean »

On the ammunition side, BAE Radway Green (former ROF Radway Green) can produce 1 million rounds per day of 5.56 and 7.62 ammunition. BAE also manufacture 20mm, 30mm, 40mm CTA, 105mm, 4.5" and 155mm ammunition, but not sure how much is produced in the UK, or what volumes.
Oh, also 81mm mortar bombs.
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
Winston Churchill

Lord Jim
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Re: Israel

Post by Lord Jim »

Thanks for the info all. I was just poking the wasps nest to see what would happen though I am not sure what was meant by moving the goal posts. Interesting that both H&K and FN have sites. What sort of capacity do they have? Are they aimed more at civilian authorities like the Police, or are they set up to provide large scale production? I didn't know about the Ammunition capability was at that level, I just remember articles where the UK's last propellant factory had been closed down. With the 105mm I assume that is the bespoke ammo for the L118, and the 30mm would be the rounds for the Rarden, which can be used by a number of other weapons mainly of swiss design. At least we can still produce rifle ammunition on a large scale which is something. By the way who are AEI and what do they produce?

mr.fred
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Re: Israel

Post by mr.fred »

The H&K and FNH sites make military weapons.
AEI systems are easy to find with google. Light cannon and machine gun components, amongst other things, if that’s too much.

Moving goalposts is when you ask for one thing then redefine to exclude the answers you don’t like.

Lord Jim
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Re: Israel

Post by Lord Jim »

Ok so are the FN and H&K sites tooled up to produce large quantities of small arms of more limited amounts to meet the needs of law enforcement for example? What I have been trying to get at is are we able to say re equip the UK Military from home based sources? I wouldn't say AEI is a small arms manufacturer unless you count 20mm autocannon as such so pot kettle black regarding moving the goal posts by including them :)

As I said above I am disappointed that we seem to be very keen to retain sovereign manufacturing capability over some areas but have a lack of interest in retaining it in others. I understand Israel has always desired to be able to produce almost all the systems needed by its armed forces, often part funded by money from the US, but as a Country with one of the largest Defence Industrial Centres we seem to have more than a few gaps in what we can build, and a possible lack of capacity in those we do have. If either the FN or H&K sites have the capacity to re equip the UK Military when the time comes then there is no issue, but if we have to import weapon systems to do so it is a tragedy.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Israel

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

You need to be an ex army chief to be trusted to run the country, but Jerusalem Post today reported on a plan that would make it two of them:
"President Reuven Rivlin’s idea [first floated 6 mths ago, but now revived] is to pass a law enabling a prime minister to suspend himself indefinitely to deal with an indictment and a bolstered vice prime minister to run the country until the prime minister is cleared of charges."

How come?

The Economist put a date in our calendars (Oct2 +4), but not much heard from this:
"On October 2nd lawyers representing Binyamin Netanyahu, the prime minister, began making the case that their client should not be charged with corruption. Mr Mandelblit, who will make the final decision, has already said there is enough evidence for indictments on counts of bribery, fraud and breach of trust. The hearing, spread over four days, is Mr Netanyahu’s first chance to challenge that evidence—and last chance to avoid going on trial"
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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SKB
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Re: Israel

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Lord Jim
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Re: Israel

Post by Lord Jim »

I am not a violent person but those who did this, what ever age, religion etc, I would seriously mess them up permanently. Seeing this makes my blood boil :evil:

bobp
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Re: Israel

Post by bobp »

Lord Jim wrote: I would seriously mess them up permanently. Seeing this makes my blood boil
Me too, I do hope the paint can be removed.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Israel

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

ArmChairCivvy wrote:"President Reuven Rivlin’s idea [first floated 6 mths ago, but now revived] is to pass a law enabling a prime minister to suspend himself indefinitely to deal with an indictment and a bolstered vice prime minister to run the country until the prime minister is cleared of charges."
There seems to be no end to the question "who will be the Prime Minister" so time ran out ... and therefore this came out:
"Israel's attorney general has charged Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu with bribery, fraud and breach of trust in connection with three separate cases."
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

SW1
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Re: Israel

Post by SW1 »

Some repeatedly tell us this is impossible other just get on and do it.

https://www.iai.co.il/p/lora

Scimitar54
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Re: Israel

Post by Scimitar54 »

Who are you ... Duncan Sandys II? :mrgreen:

SW1
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Re: Israel

Post by SW1 »

Scimitar54 wrote:Who are you ... Duncan Sandys II? :mrgreen:
Thought you’d be all for long range precision strike from the sea

Scimitar54
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Re: Israel

Post by Scimitar54 »

I am, it is called Carrier Strike! :mrgreen:

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Israel

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

The competition (see the vid) seems to cost c. £ for the hull, and just a casual&visual check would suggest abt 10 missiles at the ready... in a big enough a hull reloads could also be arranged
- a missile strike would equate to one sortie
- lets cost the carriers (6bn) and their weapon system (9bn) for sorties generated... just for the :D good fun
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

Lord Jim
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Re: Israel

Post by Lord Jim »

Don't forget some of those very expensive aircraft may not come back.

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RunningStrong
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Re: Israel

Post by RunningStrong »

Lord Jim wrote: At least we can still produce rifle ammunition on a large scale which is something.
Ref BAE Glascoed, Gwent
BAE wrote:

In August 2008, Land Systems signed a £2 billion contract with the UK Ministry of Defence (MOD), which will guarantee secure supplies of ammunition to UK troops. The arrangement is known as ‘Munitions Acquisition – the Supply Solution (MASS)’.

It is initially for a 15-year period and will supply approximately 80 per cent of the ‘general munitions’ consumed by UK Armed Forces for training and front line operations, including small arms and medium-calibre ammunition, mortar bombs, tank ammunition and artillery shells.

SW1
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Re: Israel

Post by SW1 »

https://www.iai.co.il/350-million-usd-s ... an-country

Gideon Landa, ELTA VP and GM Airborne Systems: “As part of IAI’s strategy, we are bolstering our presence in Europe for leveraging our business and extending cooperation. IAI’s Special Mission Aircraft offer advanced and unique technological capabilities to meet a broad range of most demanding intelligence missions. Europe represents a strategic business region for IAI, and we will continue to broaden our products and services to bring our unique technologies to the benefit of our customer’s evolving operational requirements.”

Timmymagic
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Re: Israel

Post by Timmymagic »

Presumably thats Italy?

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Israel

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

https://www.iai.co.il/drupal/sites/defa ... 25x515.jpg
Looks like a hamster with some food stored "for later processing" on both sides.
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

SW1
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Re: Israel

Post by SW1 »

ArmChairCivvy wrote:https://www.iai.co.il/drupal/sites/defa ... 25x515.jpg
Looks like a hamster with some food stored "for later processing" on both sides.
Haha an image forever now connected with that a/c. In service with Israel, Italy, Singapore and the US navy.

Timmymagic
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Re: Israel

Post by Timmymagic »

SW1 wrote:Haha an image forever now connected with that a/c. In service with Israel, Italy, Singapore and the US navy.
Apparently there is now some speculation that the buyer could be Greece, which makes more sense with the secrecy involved. But can they afford it?

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Israel

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Timmymagic wrote:can they afford it?
They've paid for the old Mirages with tocacco (is the 25 yrs up yet) and by buying a nuclear powerplant
They've cancelled enough German submarines and got enough US M-1 tanks for free
Perhaps they even got the S-300s for free, by solving a diplomatic deadlock and taking them off Cypriot hands, to Crete

Yes, when there is the will, there will be a way
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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