UK Defence Forum

For the benefit of anyone else who thinks that comparing the French fisheries minister to Hitler is fun.

And Mods, when he whines to you, this is not personal abuse, this is historical fact.

Please delete his original post.

https://www.jerseywartunnels.com/

A sequel in the series " we will fight to the last fish"
- the story line equally warped (so far) in all episodes

Gtal wrote:...fischermen...

Enough said

Gtal wrote:the EU has had a enough of the UKs tantrums.

I'm sure you are right but it's petty posturing and sour grapes on behalf of the EU and the rest of the world know it.

The VDL/Macron blend of confrontational politics is a far cry from the moderate diplomacy you would reasonably expect from our nearest neighbours whom we endlessly assured are our closed friends and partners. As I said, it's another serious diplomatic blunder in a long list of recent strategic mistakes by the EU hierarchy.

Back on topic, well done Severn and Tamar

Poiuytrewq wrote: Gtal wrote:
...fischermen...

Enough said

May be these https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gun_ ... Jersey.JPG could be pressed back into service

The whole fishing mess is far from over. Our shellfish fishing fleet is basically out of work as they can no longer ship fresh shellfish to the EU without spending a ton of cash to clean them, something the customer has been happy to do in the past, because overnight our sea bed no longer met EU regulations.

By the way were Royal Marines actually on board the Rivers or was that just propaganda? I like how some of the French Fishermen said they were ready to recreate the Battle of Trafalgar around St Helier, don't they know who won that one!

Lord Jim wrote:Our shellfish fishing fleet is basically out of work as they can no longer ship fresh shellfish to the EU without spending a ton of cash to clean them, something the customer has been happy to do in the past, because overnight our sea bed no longer met EU regulations.

Be interesting what happens now that a substantial portion of English waters have now been declared Class "A". Le's see what further "non-tariff barriers" spring up.

Poiuytrewq wrote:

Gtal wrote:...fischermen...

Enough said

Gtal wrote:the EU has had a enough of the UKs tantrums.

I'm sure you are right but it's petty posturing and sour grapes on behalf of the EU and the rest of the world know it.

The VDL/Macron blend of confrontational politics is a far cry from the moderate diplomacy you would reasonably expect from our nearest neighbours whom we endlessly assured are our closed friends and partners. As I said, it's another serious diplomatic blunder in a long list of recent strategic mistakes by the EU hierarchy.

Back on topic, well done Severn and Tamar

Yeah I live in Germany, I'm still a Brit. Guess what, I've lived on the continent for about 20 years and I never ever thought about getting naturalized until 2016..

But because I'm a Brit living outside the UK I can actually differentiate between facts, opinions and preceptions.

The UK is refusing to fulfilll its treaty obligations and not even offering reasonable alternatives.
On fisheries, if the UK fails to deliver it's end of the bargain the treaty provides for sweeping unilateral retaliation in other areas. One of those areas is energy.
The french are just reminding the UK how much leverage the TCA ( that Johnson signed and hailed) gives the EU.
No posturing there.
The UK on the other side sent gunboats against private fishermen protesting. If anything about this incident can be described as posturing it's the UK sending in the Navy.

Or look at the media in the UK and France reacting. On one side there were blustering militaristic frontpage headlines, on the other there were limited articles detailing the substance of the disagreement, often not on the first page.



No offence, but it's really a bit worrying how things are being seen in the UK. It really is all a bit too reminiscent of what's going on in the US media and public discourse.

Someones really been drinking the coolaid

Gtal wrote: The UK on the other side sent gunboats against private fishermen protesting. If anything about this incident can be described as posturing it's the UK sending in the Navy.

They're part of the (now renamed but same remit) Fishery Protection Squadron, heaven forbid they actually get used for the job they're tasked with!

Gtal wrote:Or look at the media in the UK and France reacting. On one side there were blustering militaristic frontpage headlines, on the other there were limited articles detailing the substance of the disagreement, often not on the first page.

The UK media has over egged this however sending the two River class OPV's which serve in the Fisheries Protection Squadron to a protest action by 50+ fishing boats can hardly be seen as a over reaction

Also what people over look here is the French protest at everything and I mean everything it is in there DNA

(Navy Lookout) 11th May 2021

See article: https://www.navylookout.com/hms-tamar-p ... nt-scheme/
Video: Portsmouth Proud

Lovely sight. The ship's complement must be very proud.

The ship looks fantastic, I wonder if the rest of the Rivers couldn't be painted in the other WWI and WWII camouflage schemes?

Well Spay is in dry dock right now so we will see soon weather the rest of the rivers will get this paint job

Tempest414 wrote:Well Spay is in dry dock right now so we will see soon weather the rest of the rivers will get this paint job

Why limit to the Rivers? I say let's give the whole fleet a distinctive paint job.

HMS Trent going into the Back Sea. Can’t help but think that two Rivers are needed in Gibraltar, one to cover the Mediterranean/Black Sea, the other for the West Coast of Africa.

Also if she is going to be messing about in the Black sea she should be fitted with a 40 or 57mm

as for having 2 B2's based in Gib I think if one is needed for West Africa at the same time as one in the Black sea then we send it from the UK

Tempest414 wrote:Also if she is going to be messing about in the Black sea she should be fitted with a 40 or 57mm

I can't see that making any material difference. In fact, transforming her into something more identifiable as a "warship", might be detrimental to her safety. Following the Russian climb-down over Crimea, this would appear to be a well-judged level of response - military, but non-threatening.

If it is not safe to go into the Black sea looking like a warship then don't send a warship the 40 or 57mm give better base line air defence and a longer stay off the grass reach I would happy for it to have 5 LMM on the 30mm mount I am not for this pandering around shit if we are going then go if not concede the ground and live with it or as someone once put it so well take a shit or get off the toilet

Are we gonna shooting Russian ships or aircraft
In the Black Sea? I don’t think so infact was hms enterprise not also in the Black Sea over the past couple of years

For a class of vessel some had a near hysterical breakdown over being built and in RN service, they seems to be being used far and wide on a number of roles and tasks.

Would agree the River class are very useful vessels, operating at a level that make a statement but not escalating. Having said that, I would still argue for a 57mm, because it should have a level of self defence that if things started to get warm it could more easily defend itself whilst extracting itself from a situation (and wait for the cavalry).

who said anything about shooting Russians it is all about defence it is my view that the only reason the B2's have a 30mm at all is there was nothing else to fit at the time i.e the next weapon up was the 4.5". Back in the day not so long ago the Peacock Class Hong Kong patrol ships had 76mm fitted

Tempest414 wrote:as for having 2 B2's based in Gib I think if one is needed for West Africa at the same time as one in the Black sea then we send it from the UK

Disagree, basing another River at Gibraltar gives redundancy, but also removes about 10 days transit (and fuel costs).

The “threat” of China gaining a foothold in the West of Africa is real, and whilst I do not see it escalating into hot conflict, a low level “Cold War” / interference in local stability is quite possible.

Interesting to see it was announced that, HMS Tamar and Spey, BOTH will be assigned for Indo-Pacific forward-basing.

At where? Gulf and Singapore?

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