wargame_insomniac wrote: ↑03 Dec 2021, 23:29If you paint said Vard-7 80/85/90 in Coastguard colours and not RN vessels, then that could be fine. But if they are to be comissioned into RN then they need to be built to better than merchent shipping standards.
Thanks for response.
Why no merchent shipping standard hulls? HMS Echo/Enterprise are Vard 9 design, basically a merchant ship hull. No difference. EEZ/Fishery OPV will never be used in harms way, similar to the Echo class. It is cheap to buy and operate, and can do EEZ/Fishery tasks the same as a River B2 can.
The T31 are supposed to be 5,700 t and just shy of 140m long. The River B2's are 2,000 t and just over 90m long. There is ample difference in size / length to have a River B3 to be between the two.
I want any potential B3's to have an enclosed hangar and slightly upgraded weapons. Something like 1*40mm and *20mm / 30mm rather than one sole 30mm. Should be abe to fit that in with say an extra 10m length and maybe 200-300 t. i.e. roughly half the size and 40m shorter than T31.
There is still clear daylight between such a potential B3 and T31 GP Frigate, especially if T31 themselves get properly uparmed themselves. And such potential B3 would be able to handle more havily armed pirates.
Understandable point, but I have a different point of view.
If you read the T31RFI document, the requirement described there is quite near what you described as River B3.
T31 requirement:
- 110 m long, 4000t-ish, frigate standard hull (with exception allowed).
- a 57 mm or larger gun, 1 Wildcat+ helicopter, 4 boat bays, 4+ containers, CIWS or anti-air missile (in other words, SeaCeptor FFBNW is ok), hull-sonar FFBNW, with simple CMS
With this requirement,
the selected T31 was
- 140 m long, 6000t-ish hull with frigate standard
- a 57 mm, two 40 mm, 1 up-to-Merlin helicopter,
3 boats, 6 containers, 12-CAMM, with mid-level CMS.
Yes the resultant T31 is large, just much larger than required. If we list the requirement for (River B3) "enlarged OPV", it will look not much different from that of T31 RFI. Less guns, no anti-air missile, and maybe OPV-standard hull, with 3000t size be ok.
For me, this "enlarged OPV" requirement has too much overlap with T31. Why not add 1 or 2 T31, in place? Omit CAMM and it will be <£200 per hull.
On the other hand, there are huge gap "below" River B2 (which is now filled with River B1). As a EEZ/fishery OPV, River B2 is high-end. Hull standard (although not known) will be higher than that of merchant ship, anti-air capable radar, 50+ soldiers accommodation, and even CMS. None of them is needed for fishery tasks.
This is the reason I opt for simpler Vard-7 "like" OPV for River B2 replacement. Even 2 hulls may work. So, it will be cheap. But, it will free-up two River B2s, which can be (relatively cheaply) up-armed, as discussed here (thanks to 57mm and 40mm guns already adopted for T31 and logistics exists *1).
(Seemingly) original plan to replace 3 River B1s with 2 of the 5 River B2 plan looks reasonable. But, building two EEZ/fishery OPV will be very cheap (~£120M?), and uparming River B2 as noted above will be also cheap (£20-30M in total?) and thus worth considering. On the other hand, if we add three "River B3s" as discussed, I'm not surprised of they cost £450-500M in total. Good if the design can find export, as a corvette. But, if purely for RN, I rather hope for 2 simple OPVs and using remaining ~£300M for improving T26, T45 and even T31 armaments.
*1: By the way, adopting many "smart" ammo for 30mm chain guns on MSI turret is another idea. Air burst rounds, and even proximity rounds are already tested, which will make the gun good against (cheap) drones, while keeping the option to shoot very cheap "dull" rounds for warning = every-day tasks.