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River Class (OPV) (RN)

Contains threads on Royal Navy equipment of the past, present and future.
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SKB
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby SKB » 27 Jun 2019, 22:00

Repulse wrote:SKB, Is it normal for ships to commission at Chatham (referring to HMS Medway)?

Huh? That's the first I've read about it. Chatham has not been an active RN base since 1984.

But Chatham and the River Medway, which HMS Medway is named after, are both in the county of Kent. So If HMS Medway is to be commissioned in Chatham, it would seem to have been organised for historic, geographic and sentimental reasons.

On 13th March 2019, Royal Navy's website confirmed it:
In September she'll have her commissioning on the river Medway. She will also exercise the Freedom of the Borough (of Medway).

https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-l ... es-for-sea

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby SKB » 28 Jun 2019, 17:50

Navy Lookout has a great article about HMS Medway's past history and future plans, some photos and a deck/compartment plan.
https://www.savetheroyalnavy.org/up-clo ... ms-medway/

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby Repulse » 28 Jun 2019, 19:48

Interesting that there is a magazine below the 30mm, has thought there were just ammo cupboards - perhaps space for a deck penetrating gun in the future?
"For get this quite clear, every time we have to decide between Europe and the open sea, it is always the open sea we shall choose." - Winston Churchill

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby albedo » 28 Jun 2019, 20:08

Just out of curiosity, how does the 3-watch system work with senior officers (and indeed other key/specialist staff for whom presumably there are only one or two posts per crew for a small lean-manned OPV).

Most obviously, are there two captains? But presumably also there are posts like Chief Engineer (or whatever the position might be called). I'm guessing that there must be eg a Senior Captain (the ranking officer whenever both are aboard) and a Junior Captain, but equally there must be a probability that the junior one will be in command when some important assignment crops up?

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby S M H » 29 Jun 2019, 15:48

albedo wrote:Just out of curiosity, how does the 3-watch system work with senior officers (and indeed other key/specialist staff for whom presumably there are only one or two posts per crew for a small lean-manned OPV).

The navy used a three watch system on the Bird class patrol boats after comparisons done when they took over Sea otter as Redpole. The officer watches were 12-4 4-8 8-12 Captain did 12-4 . The two other officers did the other watch's. They had one extra officer to the air force crews whom used a S.N.C.O. for the third O.O.W. The Senior Engineer would do the 12-4 having one fitter per watch. There was specialist as well. The crew requirement for the navy was 27 for the naval watch system . The air force had 18 crew of duty crew dropping to 8 towards the end of 1985 in preparation for contractor crewing. If you required to berth up launch sea boat. The off duty crew would be woken up to assist. If something cropped up you got woken up. It was a culture change to some of the navy crew. Civil crews working on the same boats G.O.C.O and Grey Fox now one of the Gibraltar Sqn boats .Worked a two watch system. That thankfully was not adopted by the navy in there lean manning requirement.

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby Lord Jim » 29 Jun 2019, 20:14

Reading that article you get the impression some people see the T-31e is the poor mans T-26 and the River B2 becoming be the poor mans T-31e, with all the kit they would like to see installed on these two classes of ship, and the expansion of their respective roles.

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby Repulse » 29 Jun 2019, 20:41

SKB, In it’s current form no, and not at the expense of a couple more T26s.

However, linking to the ASW thread, of it had a (T26 style) mission bay amidships operating UUVs and USuVs, combined with 12-24 CAMM, Wildcat hangar and medium guns (57mm plus 2 x 30mms), I could see it being part of future balanced fleet when the MCMs are replaced.
"For get this quite clear, every time we have to decide between Europe and the open sea, it is always the open sea we shall choose." - Winston Churchill

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby SKB » 30 Jun 2019, 12:58


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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby SKB » 01 Jul 2019, 16:40


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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby donald_of_tokyo » 08 Jul 2019, 14:12

(to be) HMS Medway, River B2 aerial view. Very impressive.
Note:
- harpoon landing "mesh" is located very aft.
- waist after the RHIB is very space. 9 m-long ORC can be easily carried.

Cannot stop thinking extending the stern by ~2m or so, to
- extend flight deck a little more
- enable 11 m-long boat to be carried on those waists
- or even ARCISM MCM drones, if needed
- or can add a UAV hanger (or two), even larger than a 20ft-ISO container if needed.



Image

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby RAF>FAN » 08 Jul 2019, 15:34

Lovely looking boat the B2 but no teeth....shame really, could have been so much more.

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby SKB » 08 Jul 2019, 17:17

^ Yes, but just remember that River is a Vosper Thornycroft design, not BAE's.

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby Tempest414 » 08 Jul 2019, 19:30

Yep the B2's have a lot of untapped capability like UAV's out of containers , USV carried on the fight deck . Given the room needed to operate a UAV they could maybe have 2 USV MCM on the waist a 20 ft container along the end of the crane housing and still have space to operate a UAV

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby Repulse » 08 Jul 2019, 21:14

Great pic of HMS Medway and the B2s in general, shows how much space is available to enhance its off board and self-defence capabilities.
"For get this quite clear, every time we have to decide between Europe and the open sea, it is always the open sea we shall choose." - Winston Churchill

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby Old RN » 09 Jul 2019, 07:37

Lots of space to bolt down some Sea Venom or Sea Spear?

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby shark bait » 09 Jul 2019, 08:11

donald_of_tokyo wrote:Cannot stop thinking extending the stern by ~2m or so, to

Agree entirely. They came so close to creating a modern small naval ship, but missed the opportunity because the decision was such a rush job.

The Russians have achieved this with their Project 22160 patrol boat, shame the Brits couldn't have applied a little bit of planning instead stumbling from mistake to mistake.
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby donald_of_tokyo » 09 Jul 2019, 10:12

shark bait wrote:
donald_of_tokyo wrote:Cannot stop thinking extending the stern by ~2m or so, to

Agree entirely. They came so close to creating a modern small naval ship, but missed the opportunity because the decision was such a rush job.

The Russians have achieved this with their Project 22160 patrol boat, shame the Brits couldn't have applied a little bit of planning instead stumbling from mistake to mistake.
It is NOT too late. There are many examples world-wide, which had stern extension of more than 2 m even AFTER the ship has been built.

For example;
- LCS Freedom class (+3m)
- OH Perry FFG (+2.5m)

As an EEZ patrol ship, River B2 is good as it is. But,
- if T31e program goes wrong, adding armaments to River B2 will be a able to partly mitigate the loss
- by including River B2 as MHC-hull part, River B2 can be the high-speed response hull, but with a bit limited deck space, which will be a nice combination with slow but bulky MHC hull.

Many "possibilities" remain there.

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby RAF>FAN » 09 Jul 2019, 13:03

Thinking outside the box in a retro kind of way....plenty of Rapier coming available soon? Low cost low pain weapon readily available. Crane on, bolt down stand alone system.

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby donald_of_tokyo » 09 Jul 2019, 13:04

Nice image of HMS Medway in Liverpool.

Image

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby SKB » 09 Jul 2019, 18:57

Medway on the Mersey.
Anyone know if Mersey is on the Medway?! :mrgreen:

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby Repulse » 09 Jul 2019, 19:08

If only they had a hangar / mission bay...
"For get this quite clear, every time we have to decide between Europe and the open sea, it is always the open sea we shall choose." - Winston Churchill

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby Digger22 » 09 Jul 2019, 20:57

Do we have more info on actual deck layout dimensions? From that angle with those Sailors, the flight deck looks pretty big. Remove the structure aft of the Funnel with the crane, replace with a full width mission bay, surely you could squeeze a Wildcat in there with a couple of ribs and their launch system too?

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby Scimitar54 » 09 Jul 2019, 21:11

Digger22 Wrote
Remove the structure aft of the Funnel with the crane, replace with a full width mission bay, surely you could squeeze a Wildcat in there with a couple of ribs and their launch system too?


May be better to offset the structure aft of the funnel & the crane to either Port or Starboard and provide a Wildcat capable hangar, which can also double as a mission bay when there is no helicopter flight embarked.

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby PapaGolf » 09 Jul 2019, 22:49

RAF>FAN wrote:Thinking outside the box in a retro kind of way....plenty of Rapier coming available soon? Low cost low pain weapon readily available. Crane on, bolt down stand alone system.


Nah, how about a couple of AS90 parked on the heli deck, proper NGFS. the navy must be bonkers to not have thought of this before! :crazy:

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Postby shark bait » 10 Jul 2019, 08:35

Scimitar54 wrote:May be better to offset the structure aft of the funnel & the crane to either Port or Starboard

Sounds totally reasonable. The Navy should have expected better from this class, but since it was a politically driven rush job important little optimisations like this have gone unchecked. Its such a massive shame.

RAF>FAN wrote:Thinking outside the box in a retro kind of way....plenty of Rapier coming available soon?

That's probably a bit too far out the box, pushing a very old system well beyond it's design parameters is not advised. If an air defence option is required for the Rivers the, only option that makes sense is LMM.
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