Swedish Armed Forces

News and discussion threads on defence in other parts of the world.
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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

abc123 wrote: Sincerely, I don't give a s*** will I be on your ignore list or not... :P
So, pls, do me a favour and do not give your idiotic comments to every post of mine.

I am not the doctor and you (PERHAPS?) are not Elisa... remains to be seen ( I was hoping for better)
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Was that ALT/ RIGHT?
... did not quite hear it ?
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

abc123
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

Post by abc123 »

ArmChairCivvy wrote:
abc123 wrote: Sincerely, I don't give a s*** will I be on your ignore list or not... :P
So, pls, do me a favour and do not give your idiotic comments to every post of mine.
Again, I wasn't commenting your post, I commented on the Swedish exercise.
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

While I say goodbye -dozvidonya - to you....at least we bought the pop corn for the same show:
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

LordJim
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

Post by LordJim »

Whenever I think of the PAK FA I keep thinking of the Firefox from the movie!

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

LordJim wrote:I keep thinking of the Firefox from the movie
There is a connection between the two planes - and it is not a visual one. In the film it is a metaphor of the machine, to symbolise the dehumanisation that the(-then) Russian regime impose upon their people.
- similarly, PAK-FA is the augur of the current regime's industrialisation strategy which is totally lead by endless money being poured into the military-industrial complex (the rationale here is that it is by default hi-tech and just like from the NASA space programme the benefits will somehow miraculously be transferred to the rest of the industry/ society)
- of course the augur will also be the end of it, as money is only limitless due to the nature of it in Russia: it is dug out of the soil. But the expansion of that production has maxed out (ref: sanctions, they started with oil drilling tech, if anyone remembers that far back) and the price the output fetches has halved. Tough! - and nothing to do with luck.

What has this got to do with Sweden? Even they have opened up their blue eyes and woken up to what's happening right on their doorstep. Reorganised their army back into battle-capable brigades (they had various disparate battalions, only, whose main purpose was to be running around the world, helping to nib various crisis in the bud).

To linger a bit longer on the Swedish soil, I quote from New York times reporting (this is Dec 1992):
"1992 speech to the Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe, Russian Foreign Minister Andrei Kozyrev's clear intent was to wake up his countrymen and the world to the threat now before us. But his dramatic warning in Stockholm is being shrugged off as a bad joke, a sophomoric hoax.

What Kozyrev did was to play the role of the next Russian foreign minister
-- the one who might represent a government that has brushed aside Boris Yeltsin and the democratic reformers. Without copping out with "Here comes a fictional scenario," the 41-year old diplomat shook up the closed-door assemblage with a peek at Cold War II.

A new Iron Curtain? "Our traditions are . . . in Asia and this sets limits to our rapprochement with Europe." The ironic portion of his speech saw Western groups ominously "strengthening their military position in the Baltic States. . . ."

Cooperation turning to mischief-making in defusing the violence in the Balkans? "The present Government of Serbia can count on the support of great Russia," said the "next" Foreign Minister of Russia.

War with newly independent Ukraine? "We will firmly insist that former Soviet Republics immediately join a new federation or confederation."

That sat 'em up, all right.

----------------
No, it didn't. Not the Swedes, nor most of those who were taking part in the Conference. People simply believe what they want to believe. They may call their jobs policy making, take highly paid for it... and it is just sad to watch.
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

abc123
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

Post by abc123 »

ArmChairCivvy wrote:While I say goodbye -dozvidonya - to you....
Spasiba tovarisch....
do svidaniya...

( at least I think that's the way Russians say it, since I don't speak Russian )
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

The script for the Aurora exercise is quite easy to put together from the Weseruebung (Germans also called it an "exercise" in the spring of 1940) and from what happened in Prague in August 1968.
- the latter can be scripted to other geographies re: how by quickly taking over key government and media facilities (think of Crimea more recently) can stun and thereby remove the feasibility of timely and cohesive defence at the broader, national level
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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xav
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

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Saab Expands its A26 Submarine Offer with now Three Variants to Choose From
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During its Submarine Seminar 2017 held this morning, Saab Kockums announced that the A26 next generation submarine is now a family with three model range: Pelagic, Oceanic and Oceanic (Extended Range).
https://www.navyrecognition.com/index.p ... -from.html

Frenchie
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

Post by Frenchie »

The French Air Force has sent to Sweden two section MAMBA ground-to-air defense systems (missile Aster 30) as well as two section CROTALE NG, as part of Exercise "Aurora 17", which brings together 19,000 men, including 1 500 foreign soldiers from the USA and France but also from Denmark, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Finland and Norway. For France, there are 124 soldiers on site.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/852 ... apad-drill

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Frenchie wrote:to Sweden two section MAMBA ground-to-air defense systems (missile Aster 30) as well as two section CROTALE NG
Interesting as US Patriot batteries were part of the plan, too (Crotale is to cover formations on the move, I take it).
- as Sweden plans to buy three batteries worth, perhaps Patriot is not a done deal yet :D
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

Frenchie
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

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http://www.defensenews.com/digital-show ... se-system/

I don't think we have a chance, Sweden does not buy a weapons system but the protective arm of America. That is what they believe in any case.

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Halidon
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

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Frenchie wrote:http://www.defensenews.com/digital-show ... se-system/

I don't think we have a chance, Sweden does not buy a weapons system but the protective arm of America. That is what they believe in any case.
With how our current CiC is affecting relationships, maybe your odds are better than you think

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

MAMBA was the runner up in the Finnish competition, not that long ago.

The statement (after choosing NASAMS) was that they rather bought 4 Volvos than 1 Cadillac
- I think Sweden has the theatre ABM capability (Iskanders and the ship-launched equals) firmly in their sights, so the cost argument is sitting lower down on the criteria ladder
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

Frenchie
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

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xav
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

Post by xav »

I was in Sweden recently...



Swedish-Finnish Naval Task Group (SFNTG) Reaches Initial Operational Capability
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Vice Admiral Veijo Taipalus, Commander of the Finnish Navy, and Rear Admiral Jens Nykvist, Chief of Swedish Navy, agreed on an intensified cooperation between the Finnish and Swedish navies in Helsinki on December 1st.

The Swedish-Finnish Naval Task Group (SFNTG) has reached initial operational capability (IOC). It means that the SFNTG is now able to conduct naval operations.

The emphasis is a common recognized maritime picture through sea surveillance operations with an ability to protect maritime traffic.
https://www.navyrecognition.com/index.p ... ility.html

Frenchie
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

Post by Frenchie »

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articl ... ssile.html

We could give our military equipment, they would not want it, after we talk about a common defence with common projects, it's a vast joke.

Frenchie
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

Post by Frenchie »

The United States presented the bill to Sweden for the purchase of four Patriot missile defense systems. The State Department and Congress approved the sale of the Patriot to Sweden estimated at 2.6 billion euros.
And it is of course expensive for Stockolm, which had allocated only 1 billion euros for this acquisition.
Sweden is considering a possible reduction of the bill. By lowering the number of missiles purchased at 150, which would lower the final addition between 1.73 and 1.83 billion euros. Or by reducing the number of batteries from four to three. But this choice would mean that only three out of four zones could be protected against possible Russian missile attacks.
The Franco-Italian defense system SAMP / T, manufactured by MBDA and Thales has lost the competition but is much cheaper than the Patriot (866 million euros for four systems equipped with Aster 30 missiles), it's incomprehensible. Buy European equipment :roll:

http://www.janes.com/article/78126/us-s ... for-sweden

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Could be some substantial fire works over the Baltic:
"100 Patriot MIM-104E Guidance Enhanced Missile-TBM (GEM-T) missiles; 200 Lockheed Martin Patriot Advanced Capabilty-3 (PAC-3) Missile Segment Enhancement (MSE) missiles"

Both Swedish and Finnish blogs have picked up on this Russian view (by their Chief of Staff) of NATO reinforcement points should there be an armed conflict, or imminent danger of one breaking out, in the Baltic area:
https://corporalfrisk.files.wordpress.c ... bild01.jpg

Why are they so far up North? Well, difficult to do any reinforcing if you have Iskanders raining down on you
- the Swedish purchase is only enough to protect Stockholm, Gotland (forward deployment) and the Command Centre for the integrated Swedish AD system.
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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xav
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

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Saab Announce First Steel Cutting of Swedish Navy’s Future SIGINT Vessel
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The Polish Nauta Shipyard has today cut the first steel for the Swedish Navy’s SIGINT ship, officially beginning the production phase of the vessel. The ceremony was also attended by officials from Saab, the Swedish defence group, which awarded the ship construction contract to the Nauta Shipyard, a part of the Polish Armaments Group (PGZ), in 2017.
http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.ph ... essel.html

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

RE: the above, had Saab not awarded the building of the hull to Poland, the ship would have had to shrink by 50% (to meet the budget constraint), which in turn would have made it about 10% of the size of the French one


At least the Norwegian Marjata (II) is half the size of the French Monge (the former right below the latter in the attached piccie; but then again Norway has the oil to pay for theirs).
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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xav
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

Post by xav »

ArmChairCivvy wrote:RE: the above, had Saab not awarded the building of the hull to Poland, the ship would have had to shrink by 50% (to meet the budget constraint), which in turn would have made it about 10% of the size of the French one


At least the Norwegian Marjata (II) is half the size of the French Monge (the former right below the latter in the attached piccie; but then again Norway has the oil to pay for theirs).
Correct me if I am wrong, but Monge is not really a SIGINT ship is it ? To me it is much more of a tracking ship (also called a missile range instrumentation ship or range ship, is a ship equipped with antennas and electronics to support the launching and tracking of missiles and rockets.)

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

I guess it is a bit of both, which explains the size relative to all others. Not privy to what is installed on it, but it was sent to track the N. Korean missile trials (what press said about sniffing for radioactive materials, to validate if any nuclear testing had been carried out may have been idle speculation as that sort of thing is usually done with aircraft).
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

dmereifield
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

Post by dmereifield »

Sorry to take us off topic (not sure where else to ask this on the site) but why doesn't the UK have SIGNIT or ELINT ships?

Smokey
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

Post by Smokey »

dmereifield wrote:Sorry to take us off topic (not sure where else to ask this on the site) but why doesn't the UK have SIGNIT or ELINT ships?
...HM Submarines

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