... and we just bought three planes for a cool BnSmokey wrote:...HM Submarines
Swedish Armed Forces
- ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces
Thanks. Why do other navies with (nuclear powered) submarines and SIGNIT air platforms have them then? E.g. The US, Russia, France etc? I guess I'm asking what the benefits are in having a ship based platform over a submarine or aircraft? And, why in our (the UK) case we seem the submarines and air platforms sufficient?ArmChairCivvy wrote:... and we just bought three planes for a cool BnSmokey wrote:...HM Submarines
Re: Swedish Armed Forces
ECHELON.dmereifield wrote:Sorry to take us off topic (not sure where else to ask this on the site) but why doesn't the UK have SIGNIT or ELINT ships?
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces
For us non-military folk?abc123 wrote:ECHELON.dmereifield wrote:Sorry to take us off topic (not sure where else to ask this on the site) but why doesn't the UK have SIGNIT or ELINT ships?
Re: Swedish Armed Forces
dmereifield wrote:For us non-military folk?abc123 wrote:ECHELON.dmereifield wrote:Sorry to take us off topic (not sure where else to ask this on the site) but why doesn't the UK have SIGNIT or ELINT ships?
I wanted to say that probably, being part of Five-Eyes Group, UK has no so big need for such ships, because UK can rely on large SIGINT/ELINT capabilities of US Military/NSA.
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…
-
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- Joined: 03 Aug 2016, 20:29
Re: Swedish Armed Forces
Thanksabc123 wrote:dmereifield wrote:For us non-military folk?abc123 wrote:ECHELON.dmereifield wrote:Sorry to take us off topic (not sure where else to ask this on the site) but why doesn't the UK have SIGNIT or ELINT ships?
I wanted to say that probably, being part of Five-Eyes Group, UK has no so big need for such ships, because UK can rely on large SIGINT/ELINT capabilities of US Military/NSA.
- ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces
Google-translate piece of what proposal [all bns counted in SEK] the Swedish Parliament is getting in front of it... in the changed security climate:
"naval [coastal defence missiles and] mining [mine laying] and amphibian [mobile defence in depth] capacity are proposed, that Sweden retains five submarines and focuses on more artillery and air defense. The measures would cost 56 billion.
In the second step, which costs 65 billion, there is a strong focus on strengthening the fighter aircraft system.
It is about finding a balance of good sensors, such as radar, functioning combat management system, major weapon arena and ability to spread the air force on bases so it can not be easily attacked by an attacker.
Wahlberg [ heade the x-party committee that put the proposal together] describes air [traffic ] forces as "very vulnerable" and states that the aircraft have too little weapons.
Two new submarines
- In the third step, which costs 47 billion, efforts are made especially on naval forces, including new subs..."
Any quantity increases in manning, infrastructure or the like have not been costed in - some will be required, but more than doubling the manpower will stretch out to 2035... a nice way of not having to do it as by then Putin will be long gone and there will be "a changed security climate"
"naval [coastal defence missiles and] mining [mine laying] and amphibian [mobile defence in depth] capacity are proposed, that Sweden retains five submarines and focuses on more artillery and air defense. The measures would cost 56 billion.
In the second step, which costs 65 billion, there is a strong focus on strengthening the fighter aircraft system.
It is about finding a balance of good sensors, such as radar, functioning combat management system, major weapon arena and ability to spread the air force on bases so it can not be easily attacked by an attacker.
Wahlberg [ heade the x-party committee that put the proposal together] describes air [traffic ] forces as "very vulnerable" and states that the aircraft have too little weapons.
Two new submarines
- In the third step, which costs 47 billion, efforts are made especially on naval forces, including new subs..."
Any quantity increases in manning, infrastructure or the like have not been costed in - some will be required, but more than doubling the manpower will stretch out to 2035... a nice way of not having to do it as by then Putin will be long gone and there will be "a changed security climate"
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
- ArmChairCivvy
- Senior Member
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- Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
Re: Swedish Armed Forces
As the war of radio waves over Syria is intensifying, the Swedes are keeping their ELINT libraries uptodate:
http://uk.businessinsider.com/swedish-a ... &r=US&IR=T
http://uk.businessinsider.com/swedish-a ... &r=US&IR=T
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
- ArmChairCivvy
- Senior Member
- Posts: 16312
- Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
Re: Swedish Armed Forces
Sweden has agreed to do quite a few things with another country... to their East, Finland:
a.
Defence and security policy dialogue.
b.
Prerequisites for combined joint military action
and operations
c.
Procedures for transfer of operational command and control
authority (TOA)
.
d.
Host nation support [not stating whether this is between them, or relates to the Host Nation arrangements with Nato?]
.
e.
Territorial surveillance and protection of territorial integrity
.
f.
Situational awareness
including exchange of classified information
.
g.
Access to each other’sterritory
for military forces of the Participants
.
h.
Common use of resources, logistics and infrastructure
, including access to military basesand exercise/training areas
.
i.
Training.
j.
Personnel exchange on the ministerial
as well as the military level
.
k.
Interoperable communications and information systems capabilities
.
l.
Logistics and armament,
including security of supply
.
m.
Research and development.
n.
Cooperation within the field of
Chemical, Biological, Radiological and
Nu-clear (CBRN) protection
.
o.
Cyber and
countering hybrid threats.
p.
Strategic communication.
a.
Defence and security policy dialogue.
b.
Prerequisites for combined joint military action
and operations
c.
Procedures for transfer of operational command and control
authority (TOA)
.
d.
Host nation support [not stating whether this is between them, or relates to the Host Nation arrangements with Nato?]
.
e.
Territorial surveillance and protection of territorial integrity
.
f.
Situational awareness
including exchange of classified information
.
g.
Access to each other’sterritory
for military forces of the Participants
.
h.
Common use of resources, logistics and infrastructure
, including access to military basesand exercise/training areas
.
i.
Training.
j.
Personnel exchange on the ministerial
as well as the military level
.
k.
Interoperable communications and information systems capabilities
.
l.
Logistics and armament,
including security of supply
.
m.
Research and development.
n.
Cooperation within the field of
Chemical, Biological, Radiological and
Nu-clear (CBRN) protection
.
o.
Cyber and
countering hybrid threats.
p.
Strategic communication.
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
Re: Swedish Armed Forces
I love how the Swedes have their Swedish Air Force Historic Flight containing nearly all their home built jet aircraft in flying condition. Imagine if we add an equivalent with a Meteor, Hunter, Lightning, Buccaneer, Canberra, Harrier and so on, jointly financed by the MoD and Industry. I also loved the AVPIN start up, brought back memories of the Avon 206s n the Canberra PR9, and the issues I used to have sourcing enough to support the fleet. The only other user at the time was the RN who used AVPIN for their Boosters on their Sea Dart.
- ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces
Been fairly quiet, other than the follow-on to the Patriot decision. Price went up (post decision ) and the discussion has been about whether to buy less or allocate more money.
Money has been talked about more generally at election time, but the consensus seems to be quite close (between the military leaders and the gvmnt , as opposed to the UK or Germany, for instance):
The sitting DefSec says up by 20% (to SEK 60 bn) and the top brass says 63 bn. The sitting minister is a Social Democrat, and the likely one to follow the sitting Hultqvist, if power shifts to the Right, has not joined in the "campaign time" ohh! we need to double the spend.
NATO membership is a hot potato: Now, later or never? But was not central in the campaigning.
Money has been talked about more generally at election time, but the consensus seems to be quite close (between the military leaders and the gvmnt , as opposed to the UK or Germany, for instance):
The sitting DefSec says up by 20% (to SEK 60 bn) and the top brass says 63 bn. The sitting minister is a Social Democrat, and the likely one to follow the sitting Hultqvist, if power shifts to the Right, has not joined in the "campaign time" ohh! we need to double the spend.
NATO membership is a hot potato: Now, later or never? But was not central in the campaigning.
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
Re: Swedish Armed Forces
Combined Dutch/Swedish deployment for operation "Atlanta".
Also at 2:30 we see the Swedish Camel Corps in action.
Also at 2:30 we see the Swedish Camel Corps in action.
- ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces
One of them had taken the T-shirt from Cold Response to warmer seas
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... ar-capital
Another sub incident.
I did see some speculation that this may have been a German 212 though, U33 apparently. Given the size of the object that may well be the case, might explain the Swedish Navy being unconcerned (might be an exercise or a test).
Another sub incident.
I did see some speculation that this may have been a German 212 though, U33 apparently. Given the size of the object that may well be the case, might explain the Swedish Navy being unconcerned (might be an exercise or a test).
- ArmChairCivvy
- Senior Member
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- Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
Re: Swedish Armed Forces
The Swedes doing a thorough job here in finding out how much they could count on General Winter in stopping Russian armoured/ mech. forces
- not much
- they got a T-80 and a couple of APCs for the trials; the latter are the same as what the new Russian Arctic Bde(s) have - just that the tracks now are wider and the HMG has been replaced with a 30mm... so that tanks can follow the roads while the supporting elements clear the flanks on that advance axis
There is another vid somewhere where the relative performance of their own tanks (Swedish & British) comes out much worse
... OK, old stuff, but the much newer trials showed a big difference between a CV90 (where consideration to snowy conditions had been given during the design) and a Bradley, too
- not much
- they got a T-80 and a couple of APCs for the trials; the latter are the same as what the new Russian Arctic Bde(s) have - just that the tracks now are wider and the HMG has been replaced with a 30mm... so that tanks can follow the roads while the supporting elements clear the flanks on that advance axis
There is another vid somewhere where the relative performance of their own tanks (Swedish & British) comes out much worse
... OK, old stuff, but the much newer trials showed a big difference between a CV90 (where consideration to snowy conditions had been given during the design) and a Bradley, too
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
Re: Swedish Armed Forces
Well at least it shows that an AT Ditch is still an effective obstacle to AFVs
- ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces
Though these interesting snippets about the new Gripen have been published by corporalfrisk.com in the context of the Finnish HX fighter competition, I will put it under Sweden as who knows what will be chosen by the Finns:
"For the Gripen E, the Meteor and the increased number of hardpoints changes what has often been decried as a light fighter into a serious BVR-force, with a maximum load of seven Meteor and two short-range IRIS-T on the wingtips. While the maximum load might not be suitable for everyday carriage (if nothing else then due to budgetary constraints), it still places the air-to-air weapons load more or less on par with e.g. the Rafale.
[...]
For heavy cruise-missiles, there’s not one but two options. The best known is likely the combat-proven SCALP/Storm Shadow [...]
The Taurus KEPD 350E is the other alternative, being built to a different requirement for the German and Swedish Air Forces (though Sweden is yet to acquire and put the weapon into operational use). The ‘350’ in the name comes from the requirement of 350 km range in all conditions at all drop heights. In practice, this means that the range when dropped from height is well above 500 km. It can be dropped from as low as 100 meters, which often is little more than a gimmick for stand-off weapons. However, for Finland this might actually be a useful feature, as there is value in staying below the radar horizon of the Russian ground based air surveillance radars. The 480 kg MEPHISTO penetrating warhead with pre-charge is also described in grand terms." not just 'any old bunker buster' - in short
Hopping away from the Nordic scene, the fact that Taurus KEPD 350E has already been integrated on the (older) Hornets by Spain feeds into the credibility of the SH in the German fighter competition (where is is one of the two alternatives remaining)
- and they are looking for a long-ranged strike a/c capable of penetration at low altitude
- which mode could then make full use of the SH radar upgrade into simultaneous dual mode (for ground hugging + that 100 mtr drop height, before making a quick getaway)
"For the Gripen E, the Meteor and the increased number of hardpoints changes what has often been decried as a light fighter into a serious BVR-force, with a maximum load of seven Meteor and two short-range IRIS-T on the wingtips. While the maximum load might not be suitable for everyday carriage (if nothing else then due to budgetary constraints), it still places the air-to-air weapons load more or less on par with e.g. the Rafale.
[...]
For heavy cruise-missiles, there’s not one but two options. The best known is likely the combat-proven SCALP/Storm Shadow [...]
The Taurus KEPD 350E is the other alternative, being built to a different requirement for the German and Swedish Air Forces (though Sweden is yet to acquire and put the weapon into operational use). The ‘350’ in the name comes from the requirement of 350 km range in all conditions at all drop heights. In practice, this means that the range when dropped from height is well above 500 km. It can be dropped from as low as 100 meters, which often is little more than a gimmick for stand-off weapons. However, for Finland this might actually be a useful feature, as there is value in staying below the radar horizon of the Russian ground based air surveillance radars. The 480 kg MEPHISTO penetrating warhead with pre-charge is also described in grand terms." not just 'any old bunker buster' - in short
Hopping away from the Nordic scene, the fact that Taurus KEPD 350E has already been integrated on the (older) Hornets by Spain feeds into the credibility of the SH in the German fighter competition (where is is one of the two alternatives remaining)
- and they are looking for a long-ranged strike a/c capable of penetration at low altitude
- which mode could then make full use of the SH radar upgrade into simultaneous dual mode (for ground hugging + that 100 mtr drop height, before making a quick getaway)
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
Re: Swedish Armed Forces
Swedish Navy Submarines Now Fitted with SubROV Submarine Remotely Operated Vehicle
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... d-vehicle/The Swedish Defence Materiel Administration (FMV) recently handed over the first SubROV Submarine Remotely Operated Vehicle to the Swedish Navy (Svenska marinen). SubROV is a tool that provides new capabilities to submarine crews, allowing them to carry out various tasks outside the submarine. The first users of the new system are the crews of the Gotland and Södermanland submarines.
Re: Swedish Armed Forces
Future Swedish Navy SIGINT vessel launched in Poland
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... in-poland/Nauta Shiprepair Yard has completed the next milestone in the construction of the Swedish SIGINT ship for the Royal Swedish Navy. Outfitting and equipment installation will take place in Nauta Shiprepair Yard, after which the vessel will undergo harbour and sea trials. The ship will then sail to Saab’s shipyard in Karlskrona to complete outfitting of special systems.
Re: Swedish Armed Forces
I wonder if anyone in the MoD as discussed the possibility of having SIGINT facilities installed covertly on say Cunard's liners? I know they are now owed by a foreign company but it would have been interesting if the old QE2 had such a capability, gather intel as it cruised around the world.
Re: Swedish Armed Forces
Summer cruises departing Southampton to the Carribean via the Barents Sea.Lord Jim wrote:I wonder if anyone in the MoD as discussed the possibility of having SIGINT facilities installed covertly on say Cunard's liners? I know they are now owed by a foreign company but it would have been interesting if the old QE2 had such a capability, gather intel as it cruised around the world.
Re: Swedish Armed Forces
I really like how the Swedes maintain historical planes, boats and vehicles. Here I believe is the Navy group.
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces
They're not likely to go near anywhere where the UK would like to collect signals intelligence. It's also not considered very nice to sail covet sigint vessels into friendly nations waters...Lord Jim wrote: I know they are now owed by a foreign company but it would have been interesting if the old QE2 had such a capability, gather intel as it cruised around the world.
The UK did mount some sigint gear on long range trawlers during the Cold War though..ones that went into Arctic fishing grounds.