Swedish Armed Forces

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Lord Jim
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

Post by Lord Jim »

The decoy announced seems very much like what the planned SPEAR-EW is aimed at. AS for SAAB's submission, being able to include Global eye within the budget limit set by Finland for the HX programme could be a major factor in the companies favour, especially with the possible commonality it would bring between Sweden and Finland. The other bidders have their work cut out I think.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

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Err, operational support is 'code' for using each others bases (and air/ sea surveillance). The recently concluded agreement was mentioned in passing and a the interoperability already put in place got much more attention
... would not decrease in any way from having 'shared hardware'
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

SW1
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

Post by SW1 »

Globaleye and Gripen are an extremely competent package and one that will be for decades to come. Saab did a good job

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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

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https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... w-aircraft

The bill sets out a series of measures that improve equipment, readiness, training, and organization across the Swedish armed forces, including the reestablishment of a number of units, including Flygflottilj (air wing) 16 at Uppsala. All wings will be expected to maintain dispersed operating locations in addition to their main bases. Overall military personnel numbers are set to rise to 90,000 from the current figure of 60,000. The document also specifies improvements and expansion in civil defense, and in cybersecurity and foreign intelligence-gathering.

In terms of Flygvapnet (the Swedish air force), the bill proposes that the current force structure of six combat aircraft squadrons will be maintained through the 2021-25 period. Four will convert to the JAS 39E Gripen as they are delivered, while two will retain the JAS 39C/D. Under initial plans, the Gripen E was to have replaced the C/D completely, but in recent times it has been seen as increasingly likely that C/Ds would be retained in view of growing regional tensions. The bill expects the Gripen C/D to be “an important part of the war organization beyond 2030,” while noting that C/Ds can also be employed for advanced training. Currently, Sweden has 60 Gripen Es on order, and the bill gives no details of future Gripen numbers, although it is estimated that the force will comprise around 90-100 fighters.

To increase combat effectiveness the bill proposes to buy more air-to-air missiles and to strengthen electronic warfare capabilities. A new missile with “sea target and some ground target capability” is to be acquired, referring to the latest extended-range version of the RBS 15F anti-ship weapon. Beyond that, a long-range strike capability is to be introduced in the 2026-2030 period. For reconnaissance duties, the Gripen currently employs the SPK 39 pod, for which new sensors will be acquired to replace current systems that are approaching obsolescence.

One of the air force’s most pressing needs is for a new airborne early warning and control system, as the current Saab 340-based S 100D/ASC 890 aircraft are overworked and aging. A decision on their replacement is due to be made in the 2021-25 period, with the acquisition to be completed after 2025. The two S 102B Korpen signals intelligence-gathering aircraft—modified Gulfstream IVs—are to be maintained, with no replacement plans to be made until after 2025.

The final air-related items in the bill relate to continued co-operation with the UK-led Future Combat Air System, which Sweden joined in 2019, although the bill notes that, for now, initial technology development will primarily support the JAS 39 Gripen. The document also notes the opportunities for co-operation with Finland in both technology and operational development should Sweden’s neighbor opt to select the Gripen E as its next fighter.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

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SW1 wrote:The bill expects the Gripen C/D to be “an important part of the war organization beyond 2030,” while noting that C/Ds can also be employed for advanced training. Currently, Sweden has 60 Gripen Es on order
- IF Finland buys Gripen, then the pipeline will double (I doubt that they will, or can, double the output... which then means stretching out in time)
SW1 wrote:To increase combat effectiveness the bill proposes to buy more air-to-air missiles and to strengthen electronic warfare capabilities.
- interestingly FMS notes for the two US fighters on offer for Finland did not include AMRAAMs... is there something (better?) brewing here as there is a tendency for joint purchases, which affords the scale to build local (as in Nordic) support
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

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SW1 wrote:Overall military personnel numbers are set to rise to 90,000 from the current figure of 60,000.
Not bad... 50%.

The same bill as linked not only fixes the money out to 2025, but specifies the target org. out to 2030. Let's look at land (Patriots and a whole lot of other things are under Joint Command):
arty rgmnts 2
AD bns 2
mech bdes 3
mot. bde 1 (Stockholm region)
mech BG (Gotland) 1
SF heliborn bn 1
Norrland (Arctic) bns 2
Local defence bns (regular) 5; volunteer TA 40 (the latter are directed by Joint Command)
Add from the navy command:
marine bns 2
navy version of ' RAF Rgmnt' bns 2

A divisional HQ will be set up, to enable concentration of manoeuvre forces to any one part of the country, and by 2025 the yearly throughput of conscripts should reach 8000, which might start to change the nature of the TA bns.
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

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ArmChairCivvy wrote:
SW1 wrote:The bill expects the Gripen C/D to be “an important part of the war organization beyond 2030,” while noting that C/Ds can also be employed for advanced training. Currently, Sweden has 60 Gripen Es on order
- IF Finland buys Gripen, then the pipeline will double (I doubt that they will, or can, double the output... which then means stretching out in time)
SW1 wrote:To increase combat effectiveness the bill proposes to buy more air-to-air missiles and to strengthen electronic warfare capabilities.
- interestingly FMS notes for the two US fighters on offer for Finland did not include AMRAAMs... is there something (better?) brewing here as there is a tendency for joint purchases, which affords the scale to build local (as in Nordic) support
Sweden use meteor why take a backward step to amraam.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

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SW1 wrote: did not include AMRAAMs... is there something (better?) brewing here
It was formulated the other way, so no backward step

And while we are on kit, about armour
- upgrades to 2025
- total renewal from 2030
Quite a step up from the one active tank bn they kept to 2 mech. bdes + a BG by 2025 and adding a third such bde by 2030.
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

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Overall, an interesting way to deal with Integrated/ 'Total' Defence; no wonder it has taken abt 5 yrs
- first a White Paper, seeking to build main party consensus
- then the Gvmnt quotes those parts it will aim to implement, and gives a detailed rationale for each of those actions
- the whole package put forward with the budget

Just a quick comparison to the scenario underpinning Aurora 17:
- the focus on Stockholm, Gothenborg and Gotland; none of those changed, but G-borg spelled out as key to maintaining communications with the West
- new regiments' chosen locations further stress securing the traffic in the Oslo and Trondheim directions
- and, finally, a return to the North. It was about 5 yrs ago when the Chief of Defence Forces stated that with what he was given the country could be defended all the way... up to 50 km to the North of Stockholm :!:
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

SW1
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

Post by SW1 »

I would say like most of the Nordic countries they have a limited budget so don’t have money to burn they need to get a clear idea of what they want to
do be pragmatic about what’s possible and then buy what’s needed. It would never catch on over here.

Lord Jim
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

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Yes we seem to think that simply running up the Union Jack or White Ensign will make the opposition run away or surrender. :D

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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

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This may be three years old but it put a smile on my face as the footage is pretty good and it is a Band and song I like, enjoy.

Second video is also pretty good looking at the kit they use.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Heavy metal is used a lot in recruitment videos (do they need any; there's conscription in both countries?) in both Sweden and Finland
... no wonder as there should be a ready audience: Finland leads the list of countries by far with 53.2 heavy metal bands per 100,000 residents. Sweden is the second most dense country with 37.14 metal bands per 100,000 residents. -- Encyclopaedia Metallum
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

Lord Jim
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

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Interesting to know. The music does seem more appropriate than Justin Bieber or little Minx for such footage. :D

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Lord Jim wrote:Justin Bieber or little Minx
Who are they?
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

Lord Jim
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

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Not sure just had a quick search on the inter-web to see current music stars. :D

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

I think we missed a trick by not going CV90 (yonks ago).
We would have the recce wagons the way they are being upgraded for Norway, AMOS twin-mortar turrets (which, when the Swedes reaped more of the peace dividend, the Finns decided to put onto AMVs instead) and this serious piece of kit for occasions when the Ch 2s/3s are still on their way, on the back of the HETs.
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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xav
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

Post by xav »

Saab Delivers 2nd Upgraded Gotland-Class Submarine To Sweden
Saab has today, on Wednesday 16th of December, delivered the second submarine of Gotland-class to the Swedish Defence Materiel Administration (FMV) after a Mid-life upgrade.
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... to-sweden/

Lord Jim
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

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I did know but the Swedish Navy has put a new version of its famous CB-90 Combat Boat into service, the CB-90HSM:

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

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Well, that did not play for me but I suspect it is different from the boat for AMOS, which is back in the works now
- once it became clear that the platform had to be 2.5x larger than the std CB, to be stable enough for repeated firing, it got put on hold (the last time around. As did the CV90s that were only recently taken out of storage and only received a much simplified dual-mortar system).
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

Lord Jim
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

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The modernised design is better protected and carries greater firepower including a centrally mounted RWS which is far more stable than previous examples fitted to older CB-90s. In addition there are five mounting points for weapons up to .50 Cal amidships and at the stern. Cameras give both the crew and passengers greater situational awareness and it is better ergonomically designed inside.

I still think we should purchase between six or eight for the Royal Marines as they are ideal for what they transformed force's role is intended to be, and there is little better for littoral and riverine operations out there though there are similar platforms such as those used by the Finns.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

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Lord Jim wrote: there is little better for littoral and riverine operations out there though there are similar platforms such as those used by the Finns.
For some reason the Ruskies decided to copy the CB90 https://thaimilitaryandasianregion.word ... ts-russia/
when the Finns had available both a shallow draught (like CB90) design, and a deep-V (Jehu) alternative to operate in all weathers, on a prolonged basis
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

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Upthread has about all of this, but forecast international (.com) has done a concise write-up

"The government plans to retain the Swedish Army’s two existing brigades while beginning to organize and stand up a third mechanized brigade and a reduced motorized brigade in the area of the capital, Stockholm.

An additional marine amphibious battalion will be created and based in Gothenburg, on Sweden’s western coast along the Kattegat Sea area, with both of these battalions receiving new vessels and unmanned systems.

The strategic island of Gotland will have its defenses further strengthened with air defense systems.

Back in late 2017, the Swedish government opted to reinstate a permanent military presence on the Baltic Sea island under the re-raised Gotland Regiment"

So three mech. bdes, two BGs (Stockholm and Gotland), a highly mobile Marines bn on each coast, and what has not been mentioned: two specially kitted out ranger bns for their high North (Norrland).
- the locations for the BGs and Marines replicate the areas of exercise during Aurora 17
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

Lord Jim
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

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They are seriously increasing their Armed Forces, taking the change in international relationships and increased threats very seriously. I have always admired the organisation and doctrine of the Swedes, I wonder if they will re open some of their more hardened infrastructure such as the underground aircraft and naval hangers they mothballed in the 1990s.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

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Lord Jim wrote: naval hangers they mothballed in the 1990s.
Indeed, https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... ssia-fears

Whereas for the airforce it was always more about dispersal; they are building that capability back (buying snow plows and all kinds of things)
- but without conscription that is a tall order; very manpower intensive
- the Finnish AF that has retained the concept all thru would in wartime outnumber the RAF manpower wise, as the dispersal will have to be true dispersal and not just sitting by a runway - that used to be the highway. And that extensive area, many of them in fact, so that you can switch, will also require perimeter defences as well as AD
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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