Swedish Armed Forces

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xav
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

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Second Gotland-class Submarine HMS Uppland Relaunched following MLU by Saab
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The relaunch of HMS Uppland took place June 19, 2019 at Saab Kockums' shipyard in Karlskrona. Two of the Gotland-class submarines have now concluded comprehensive mid-life upgrades (MLU) and are equipped to face the challenges of tomorrow.
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... u-by-saab/

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xav
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

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Final NH90 ‘HKP14’ Delivered to Swedish Armed Forces
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The 18th and final NH90 helicopter for the Swedish Armed Forces was handed over by the Swedish Defence Materiel Administration (FMV) in July, at the Airbus Helicopters site of Marignane in Southern France.
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... ed-forces/

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

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xav wrote:[the] final NH90 helicopter for the Swedish Armed Forces was handed over by the Swedish Defence Materiel Administration (FMV) in July
Quite a long-winded (" a long and winding road") process, that one:
"In September 2001, the NH90 was chosen as the common helicopter for the Nordic standard helicopter programme, for the navies of Norway, Sweden and Finland. Sweden has ordered 18 (13 TTT, five NFH), Finland 20 TTH and Norway 14 NFH (six for ASW and six for the coastguard). The first, a transport variant (called Hkp 14 in Swedish service), was delivered to Sweden in June 2007. Sweden is the first customer for the high-cabin version (HCV), which has a cabin height of 1.82m compared to 1.58m for the standard version. Deliveries to Finland began in March 2008."
- I hear the warranty has been working fine (until it has run out, and the yearly maint./ operation costs have doubled?)
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

Lord Jim
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

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Very interesting piece of the Kit this torpedo. Being wire guided and carried by ASW Helicopter, where the latter can control the torpedo after launch. Great for littoral operations as per the Baltic and the only weapon of this type to enter service.

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xav
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

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Interview with Saab Kockums about the Gotland-class upgrade program and the next generation A26 Blekinge-class submarine followed by an interview with Damen about the Walrus submarine replacement program.


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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

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Well, there was only enough money for the Patriot batteries to protect the AF Command Centre, Gotland (see Aurora 17) and the Royal Castle, in that order, so the navy has taken to other means to protect themselves against a surprise attack, possibly starting with Iskanders et al: https://hs.mediadelivery.fi/img/1440/79 ... 1aabf2.jpg

Not a small place, Musko base, all within rock in a location specifically selected for uniformity of the rock formation, adding to its strength: 4 dry docks, 2000 soldiers/ sailors seated for a meal at the same time...
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

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xav wrote: the Gotland-class upgrade program and the next generation A26 Blekinge-class submarine [;] interview with Damen about the Walrus submarine replacement program.
Thanks xav, very interesting (only now had time to watch the vid). Have lost track of the Swedish subs plans:
- as the Gotland and Blekinge classes will overlap, will the submarine fleet numbers go up?

A good deal for Saab/Kockums, with Damen! We only got to build the nose cones for the Spanish subs whereas Saab will be supplying all the hull modules for the Dutch
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

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Patriot batteries to protect the AF Command Centre, Gotland
Musko [naval] base, all within rock
All of these relatively recent initiatives, clearly driven by the actions in Crimea (and the prolonged side show that did not quite 'go to script'). Davis Center for Russian and Eurasian Studies published (only 20 days ago) a piece on Russia's strategic drivers and goals in its NW (North Atlantic excepted; perhaps another piece on that will follow?) and some nuggets from that follow:
" The Russian military has relatively few forces in northwestern Russia because its main focus in recent years has been on securing the Caucasus, reinforcing its border with Ukraine, and building up forces in the Arctic and the Far North. Russian forces in northwestern Russia are not equipped for a short-notice conventional conflict, with relatively few mechanized units and a command structure not set up to fight a war in this region."
and
"assessment would lead to a strategy of managing the [rather:any] crisis carefully in order to keep costs low and avoid triggering a vigorous response by NATO. Although it is important for Russia to keep Sweden and Finland out of NATO, Russia would not be likely to mount a military response if the two Nordic states take steps toward that goal. Concerns about the vulnerabilities described above, especially the danger of horizontal escalation to [rather: from] other theaters"

Were there to be escalation from a crisis somewhere else, the likeliest actions would be
- a surprise attack to take Swedish airforce and navy out (hence the Patriots and return to Musko)
- and to simultaneously grab Gotland, in a combined operation, to keep Kaliningrad "maintainable"
- logic would dictate that the Finnish AF would be taken out in the same go, but that would bring a heavy price by way of the number of brigades that would be tied down (from use elsewhere) through the Finnish army mobilisation
I would conclude that any land action (beyond the possible Gotland op) is unlikely
- again, logic would dictate taking Aland in the same go, but Sweden and Finland have pledged to defend the (demilitarised) islands together, so that action would multiply the forces that would need to be committed, ongoing, to the NW
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

Lord Jim
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

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I wonder how many NATO underground Command centres are going to be spring cleaned and re opened? Hopefully NATO (US) funds are being allocated to the Baltic states and Poland to increase the survivability of these types of installation given their proximity to their nasty neighbours.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

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Lord Jim wrote:how many NATO underground Command centres
Not the one in GIB, which used to be jointly manned by the UK and Spain, to the tune of 400... but was conveniently abolished from the command structure
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)


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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

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Great video form back in 2004 showing the Swedish Air Force operating off base with my favourite aircraft of all time the mighty Viggen.

Soundtrack ain't bad either :D

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

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Will have to watch with better time, but worth noting that Viggen was withdrawn prematurely as it was imperative that there was work going on on Gripen (which has now been worked into its 2nd generation)
- the Swedes have also resurrected their distributed bare base ops
- not an easy thing to do as previously it was predicated on conscription (and everything you need, starting with snow plows, was discarded). As a comparison, the ground component, not directly working on flight ops or C2, of the Finnish AF wartime establishment goes up, to 30.000
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

Voldemort
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

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ArmChairCivvy wrote:Will have to watch with better time, but worth noting that Viggen was withdrawn prematurely as it was imperative that there was work going on on Gripen (which has now been worked into its 2nd generation)
- the Swedes have also resurrected their distributed bare base ops
- not an easy thing to do as previously it was predicated on conscription (and everything you need, starting with snow plows, was discarded). As a comparison, the ground component, not directly working on flight ops or C2, of the Finnish AF wartime establishment goes up, to 30.000
Exactly, dispersed road base doctrine is rather manpower intensive.

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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

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Voldemort, is/was this something you Finns do?

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Tempest414
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

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Dispersed aircraft were all the rage in the 70's and 80's and one of the main drivers for the Harrier force it is now out of fashion in the West but still big in Asia with a number of airforces carrying out yearly Ex's

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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

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https://saabgroup.com/media/news-press/ ... globaleye/

Saab delivered the first GlobalEye Swing Role Surveillance System aircraft to the United Arab Emirates on 29 April 2020.

The United Arab Emirates has ordered three GlobalEye aircraft, with the initial contract signed in late 2015. In November 2019 the country also announced its intention to complete a contract amendment for the purchase of an additional two systems.


“The delivery of the first GlobalEye is a major milestone for Saab, but also an important step in the history of airborne early warning and control. We have set a new standard for the market and I am proud to say that we have delivered the most advanced airborne surveillance solution in the world to the United Arab Emirates”, says Micael Johansson, President and CEO of Saab.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

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Dispersion, new std...

The Saab a/c are sensors whereas the AWACSs have the operators onboard. So the reason why one of the few Patriot batteries for Sweden will go to protect the AF Command Centre is that there is a degree of centralisation... so that the numbers of look-down sensors up in the air can be increased for the same cost (and are tolerant of some attrition)
- but this is, to a degree, counterbalanced by dispersion
- the Swedish (new) Gripens have a stealthy (directed, burst ) comms protocol akin to what F-22/ F-35 have
- so a pair can operate hundreds of km from each other just as if they were 'wing to wing'
- this means that one can be the sensor (if needed, without being too stealthy, though) and the other, the shooter
- AD of Sweden (larger in area than the UK) can be covered by having three such pairs up in the air at any given time
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

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ArmChairCivvy wrote:Dispersion, new std...

The Saab a/c are sensors whereas the AWACSs have the operators onboard. So the reason why one of the few Patriot batteries for Sweden will go to protect the AF Command Centre is that there is a degree of centralisation... so that the numbers of look-down sensors up in the air can be increased for the same cost (and are tolerant of some attrition)
- but this is, to a degree, counterbalanced by dispersion
- the Swedish (new) Gripens have a stealthy (directed, burst ) comms protocol akin to what F-22/ F-35 have
- so a pair can operate hundreds of km from each other just as if they were 'wing to wing'
- this means that one can be the sensor (if needed, without being too stealthy, though) and the other, the shooter
- AD of Sweden (larger in area than the UK) can be covered by having three such pairs up in the air at any given time
Globaleye does have 6 operators on board. But then if you look were the US want to head dispersion is a central requirement. Infact they plan to use there tankers as a airborne battle management node.

Ultimately AWAC was purchased to plug radar gaps around the UK air defence region it has morphed into other roles as that became redundant it maybe coming back.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

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Aren't all of these, whether most stuff in done onboard or somewhere else, predicated on the advantages of look-down radars? And to a lesser degree on survivability as they will be where needed, without a known, fixed location.
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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xav
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

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First Surface Ship and Submarine Firings for Saab Lightweight Torpedo
Saab and the Swedish Defence Materiel Administration (FMV) and Swedish Armed Forces have conducted the first tests with the Saab Lightweight Torpedo (SLWT) from a Visby-class corvette and Gotland-class submarine.

The tests are the first of its kind for the new torpedo and were undertaken during February and March 2020 at sea ranges outside Karlskrona, on Sweden’s east coast in the Baltic Sea. The tests were conducted from a Gotland-class submarine and from a Visby-class corvette. The purpose of the firings was to verify that the torpedo can be safely launched from the vessels, which also included verification of the integration on the vessels as well as SLWT’s target seeker.
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... t-torpedo/

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

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The Swedish budget for defence is still under parliamentary scrutiny, but the proposal by the gvmnt would add 10% every year, to reach 1.5% of the GDP in 2025.
- defence inflation over the years to that end point has been assessed at 4%
... which sets our 0.5% real increase OVER CPI into context. Or maybe Sweden is just going hi-tech v fast?
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

Lord Jim
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

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Or they have a Government with its Civil Servants and Advisors who actually understand defence and the threats there are out there in the world.

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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Swedish Armed Forces

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From 14:30 in the vid run time, the method Saab provides for IADS breaching (going round is less of an option now that the SAM ranges have greatly increased) is "officially launched" - albeit only quite briefly.
- there was to be a press release 'out shortly' - which I take has been quoted from here already

@20 mins the graph shows the coverage against low-flying intruders: taking off from Kauhava , in the extreme West of Finland, the whole country (save for the areas N of the Polar Circle) would be immediately covered.

... a good find :thumbup:
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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