AW101 Merlin Helicopter (RN)

[marktigger]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-36232084

causing fun on 10 tors

[The Armchair Soldier]

Lockheed Martin Set to Re-bid on Crowsnest

• Lockheed Martin UK will submit a revised Crowsnest Demonstration and Manufacture phase proposal in June 2016
• A contract award is now being targeted for the third quarter of 2016

A Demonstration and Manufacture contract award for the UK Royal Navy's (RN's) Crowsnest airborne surveillance and control programme has been pushed back to the third quarter of 2016, after prime contractor Lockheed Martin UK Integrated Systems was asked to revise and re-bid its proposal.

Read More: http://www.janes.com/article/60244/lock ... -crowsnest

[bobp]

Push program to the right, make it cheaper/

[marktigger]

or push the program to the right and make it more expensive!

Don't the Italians already have an AEW Variant? & A marine Assualt Variant?

[ArmChairCivvy]

The testing was supposedly v successful, so I presume the rebid is just about a reconfig that does the same (or better!) with cheaper components
- just how long has this been in the making...relative to this https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... _Intel.png

[Gabriele]

or push the program to the right and make it more expensive!

Don't the Italians already have an AEW Variant? & A marine Assualt Variant?

4 HEW (Helicopter Early Warning) with a large, air-to-air radar in an enlarged radome where the normal Merlin's radar is commonly located. Truth be told, it has never been as good as hoped, however.

And yes, there is also a very well equipped amphibious support variant, the ASH. Once the HC3 are finally navalized, you'll have something similar to what the italian navy has been using for a good bunch of years already.

[marktigger]

does the italian assualt version have the reinforced cargo floor the HC3 has?

[SKB]

Last Merlin helicopter leaves RAF Benson

The final Merlin helicopter has left RAF Benson in Oxfordshire for a new life at Royal Naval Air Station Yeovilton.

The Merlin Force officially transferred to the Royal Navy on 30 September 2014 and the final Merlin helicopter bade a fond farewell to RAF Benson as they flew to their new home at RNAS Yeovilton.

The Merlin came into service with the Royal Air Force in 2001 and contributed to combat and humanitarian operations for over a decade before being transferred to the Royal Navy.

(ITV)

[RichardIC]

The "Orphan Eight"

OK - no radical news, but at least there still seems to be some active discussion.

http://www.janes360.com/images/assets/3 ... rtoire.pdf

Numbers game
Lockheed Martin's original MCSP contract included an option for the modernisation of up to eight
additional aircraft and mission systems. In the event, these 'orphan eight' were dropped as part of
the MoD's 2009 Planning Round to yield a saving of GBP65 million as part of the MoD's in-year
Equipment Examination.
However, given the anticipated demands on the Merlin force going forward, NCHQ, DE&S, and
Lockheed Martin have for some time been examining options to bring some if not all of these now
stored HM.1 aircraft up to the HM.2 standard. Lockheed Martin's Ziemba confirmed that the
company has provided a range of costed options addressing a number of airframe and mission system combinations.

"It's a live discussion," he said, adding, "It's more than just a price, we have
a number of business models. What we are trying to do is understand the [fiscal] environment in
which the RN is operating so we can help them with the business case."

[Gabriele]

The MOD has decided to take a second look at the Vigilance pod, as well... i keep alive the flame of hope that, attached to CROWSNEST, there will be 8 more Merlin upgraded and retained. It would be very, very helpful. They could upgrade them only cockpit and console-wise, without the ASW part, and then use them all the time in AEW, reducing the number of Merlin to be modified as "convertibles".

It would be soooooooo much better to have 8 full-time AEWers rather than play the pod and crew change game...

[Ron5]

8 AEW capable cabs or 30. Mmm tough choice.

[Gabriele]

There will be no more than 10 AEW kits purchased, remember. Having 8 helicopters just for the AEW role would be a major, major, major, MAJOR advantage, instead of having to systematically rob the ASW squadrons to give 849 something to fly.

The number of crews will also obviously conjure against giving any real meaning to having 30 "AEW capable" helicopters. The aim is having 4-5 AEW helicopters and 9 ASW to embark whenever the carrier is deployed. It'll be much easier with 38 helicopters than with 30.

[Ron5]

There will be no more than 10 AEW kits purchased, remember. Having 8 helicopters just for the AEW role would be a major, major, major, MAJOR advantage, instead of having to systematically rob the ASW squadrons to give 849 something to fly.

The number of crews will also obviously conjure against giving any real meaning to having 30 "AEW capable" helicopters. The aim is having 4-5 AEW helicopters and 9 ASW to embark whenever the carrier is deployed. It'll be much easier with 38 helicopters than with 30.

So if a couple of your 8 Merlins crash or have to go into deep maintenance, 25% of your force is shot.

It seems blindingly obvious to me that making the entire fleet AEW capable i.e. having the relevant gear able to simply transfer from one airframe to another (just like the sonar kit) is a much better solution.

But of course, you saying "major" four times really convinced me otherwise.

[Gabriele]

So if a couple of your 8 Merlins crash or have to go into deep maintenance, 25% of your force is shot.

Your suggestion is idiotic for a simple reason: no one forbids the Royal Navy from applying the relevant mod to N of the existing HM2 helicopters to enable their use in AEW role. The AEW kit will still be palletized.
But securing 8 more airframes should be an absolute priority. 30 are simply not enough. There is also no overstating the advantage that would come from having some more airframes to assign permanently to 849.

In brief points:

- Merlin is about to be loaded with yet another mission, AEW
- CROWSNEST is palletized and the Royal Navy is planning to procure some 10 kits
- CROWSNEST is meant to work with HM2 software / hardware
- HM2 upgrade is expensive because it includes very substantial upgrades to the ASW kit as well; but

- to help pay for 8 more airframes, one good idea might be to leave ASW out, and apply a "base" HM2 upgrade. Having the full package would be good, but money is finite. 8 HM2 useable in non-ASW maritime security and as AEW cabs would still be an excellent deal
- Nobody prevents the addition of the AEW mod to a share of the rest of the fleet. But i'd rather give priority to getting 8 more cabs in service than applying the mod to all 30.

[Ron5]

It would be soooooooo much better to have 8 full-time AEWers rather than play the pod and crew change game..

So when you said this, you really meant they should keep playing the pod and crew change but with 8 more airframes.

Yup, makes sense.

Sooo much simpler just to say the RN needs more Merlins.

[Beagle24]

Amen to that. It's so blindingly obvious that 30 is just not enough. Oddly I just wonder with Apache work heading stateside will the decision to upgrade the orphan eight, or whatever is left of them, be one more intended to sustain uk jobs rather than for any of the logic stated above. And what about time scales? I can just imagine another long drawn out procurement process with all additional 8 available to the Navy early to mid 2020s.

[shark bait]

They could upgrade them only cockpit and console-wise, without the ASW part, and then use them all the time in AEW, reducing the number of Merlin to be modified as "convertibles".

Sounds reasonable to me. The Merlin fleet would then stand at 38 HM.2, consisting of 30 ASW capable HM.2 and 38 AEW capable HM.2 which should release the pressure on the fleet.

If leaving out the ASW kit for those 8 brings the cost of the upgrade down to a manageable level it should definitely be done.

[donald_of_tokyo]

They could upgrade them only cockpit and console-wise, without the ASW part, and then use them all the time in AEW, reducing the number of Merlin to be modified as "convertibles".

Sounds reasonable to me. The Merlin fleet would then stand at 38 HM.2, consisting of 30 ASW capable HM.2 and 38 AEW capable HM.2 which should release the pressure on the fleet.

If leaving out the ASW kit for those 8 brings the cost of the upgrade down to a manageable level it should definitely be done.

Agreed. But I shall rather say, "The Merlin fleet would then stand at 38 HM.2, with 30 ASW kits and 8 AEW kits to be mounted". In other words, air frames could be rotated, if needed. I think in principle, this is doable.

[marktigger]

leave out the ASW upgrade? Thats what the HM2 upgrade is about yes there is a new cockpit which is also being fitted to the HC3 fleet (Hopefully all of it) but the architecture of HM2 is what Crowsnest works on. and that means it can be fitted to ANY HM2. It would be great getting the additional 8. And I hope in time we get the HM2(A) for attack with Martlet and Sea Venom ASM's

[rec]

Brining the orphan HM1s into service for AEw would be a good idea. And it would keep Westalnds open for a bit longer as they do the ugrade work.

[marktigger]

they have the HC3 conversion going to

[Opinion3]

I think this is just a numbers game. We need as many HM3s as we can get, personally I think 8 AEW sets sounds on the low side. Submarines are one of the bigger threats but probably one of the biggest gaps is in our ability to destroy surface and below surface threats. Personally I believe the sensible outcome was to have given the Navy an all Merlin fleet. The money spent on Wildcat may have opened the door to export orders, and I recollect Merlin has having issues when decisions were being made, but the money spent on an all-singing, all-dancing Merlin could have been invested wisely instead we have two helicopter to do one job. Just like the need to send Tornados and Typhoons to Libya. Pointless.

The other number of course is money.

[rec]

So would another platform for AEW make sense, in addition to converting the remaining HM1s??????

[Dahedd]

bit OT but could the AEW package be fitted to a drone such as a Predator or the larger pattern of Zepyhr? The Zepyhr Would certainly give them high altitude coverage.

[rec]

bit OT but could the AEW package be fitted to a drone such as a Predator or the larger pattern of Zepyhr? The Zepyhr Would certainly give them high altitude coverage.

Not really OT, 30 Merlin HM2s is too few, to find funds to bring the remaining 8 HM1s to HM2 standards makes sense.