Middle East

[abc123]

For my money there is no chance of the Houthis heeding this warning (in fact they might escalate their attacks as a show of defiance) and therefore strikes by the US, UK and possibly France (although they are a puzzling absence from the signatories) are likely imminent:

Even more important- where are Saudis, UAE, Oman, Kuwait, Jordan, Egypt, Qatar?

[wargame_insomniac]

I think US and UK unilaterally attacking the Houthis is a strategic mistake, in particular how it may appear to the moderate states in the Arab World - countries like Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Oman, UAE, Qatar, Kuwait and Bahrain should be our natural allies in the region. Otherwise we risk them being brought into the BRICS orbit. And yet Bahrain was the only Arab state who signed the recent Joint Statement arning the Houthis.

(And no I have nt forgotten Saudi execution of journalist and their treatment of foriegn workers who died and were injured in building the football World Cup stadiums in Qatar).

Saudi Arabia has been fighting the Houthis for years, We would have been far better working with the Saudis, even letting them take the lead, for any action against the Houthis.

How is it unilateral if carried out under the auspices of the 13 countries including Bahrain who put out the 'final warning' to the Houthis.

Which nations are actually to be carrying out any action? Hmmn? Bahrain??!!

13 Nations are immaterial. It will be PERCEIVED as unilatral by the wider world i.e. non-NATO / Japan / S. Korea / Australia etc.

We need Saudi Arabian backing.

Japan and Australia are two of the 13 countries.

And??

How does two more Western-aligned nations participation in any attack on Houthis help in changing the perception of any non-Western nations??

Those two nations were part of your list of the wider world.

As to perception in the non-Western world. The Houthis would not be on the Christmas card list of a large proportion of the Muslim world for example, see the IS car bomb in Iran.

Others such as China or India would be supportive on a purely trade \logistics basis, pro Houthi in a mischief making for the West basis or not bothered at all.

No. you misuderstood. I had said: "It will be PERCEIVED as unilatral by the wider world i.e. non-NATO / Japan / S. Korea / Australia etc."

i.e. the wider world excludes all of those countries that are NOT one of the following:
NATO / Japan / S. Korea / Australia etc.

I would have said non-Westen nations. But I was trying to avoid confusion as to whether that included Pacific nations such as Japan / S. Korea / Australia.

Hopefully that helps clarify what I originally meant.

[tomuk]

I think US and UK unilaterally attacking the Houthis is a strategic mistake, in particular how it may appear to the moderate states in the Arab World - countries like Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Oman, UAE, Qatar, Kuwait and Bahrain should be our natural allies in the region. Otherwise we risk them being brought into the BRICS orbit. And yet Bahrain was the only Arab state who signed the recent Joint Statement arning the Houthis.

(And no I have nt forgotten Saudi execution of journalist and their treatment of foriegn workers who died and were injured in building the football World Cup stadiums in Qatar).

Saudi Arabia has been fighting the Houthis for years, We would have been far better working with the Saudis, even letting them take the lead, for any action against the Houthis.

How is it unilateral if carried out under the auspices of the 13 countries including Bahrain who put out the 'final warning' to the Houthis.

Which nations are actually to be carrying out any action? Hmmn? Bahrain??!!

13 Nations are immaterial. It will be PERCEIVED as unilatral by the wider world i.e. non-NATO / Japan / S. Korea / Australia etc.

We need Saudi Arabian backing.

Japan and Australia are two of the 13 countries.

And??

How does two more Western-aligned nations participation in any attack on Houthis help in changing the perception of any non-Western nations??

Those two nations were part of your list of the wider world.

As to perception in the non-Western world. The Houthis would not be on the Christmas card list of a large proportion of the Muslim world for example, see the IS car bomb in Iran.

Others such as China or India would be supportive on a purely trade \logistics basis, pro Houthi in a mischief making for the West basis or not bothered at all.

No. you misuderstood. I had said: "It will be PERCEIVED as unilatral by the wider world i.e. non-NATO / Japan / S. Korea / Australia etc."

i.e. the wider world excludes all of those countries that are NOT one of the following:
NATO / Japan / S. Korea / Australia etc.

I would have said non-Westen nations. But I was trying to avoid confusion as to whether that included Pacific nations such as Japan / S. Korea / Australia.

Hopefully that helps clarify what I originally meant.

Ok but what is the problem if it is perceived as such? Will Russia be upset? Iran? Brazil?

[wargame_insomniac]

Ok but what is the problem if it is perceived as such? Will Russia be upset? Iran? Brazil?

I had said earlier:

I think US and UK unilaterally attacking the Houthis is a strategic mistake, in particular how it may appear to the moderate states in the Arab World - countries like Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Oman, UAE, Qatar, Kuwait and Bahrain should be our natural allies in the region. Otherwise we risk them being brought into the BRICS orbit. And yet Bahrain was the only Arab state who signed the recent Joint Statement arning the Houthis.

The countries that I was most concerned about I have highlighted in bold above. This was obviously written before today's confirmation that Saudi Arabia had officially joined BRICS.

[tomuk]

Ok but what is the problem if it is perceived as such? Will Russia be upset? Iran? Brazil?

I had said earlier:

I think US and UK unilaterally attacking the Houthis is a strategic mistake, in particular how it may appear to the moderate states in the Arab World - countries like Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Oman, UAE, Qatar, Kuwait and Bahrain should be our natural allies in the region. Otherwise we risk them being brought into the BRICS orbit. And yet Bahrain was the only Arab state who signed the recent Joint Statement arning the Houthis.

The countries that I was most concerned about I have highlighted in bold above. This was obviously written before today's confirmation that Saudi Arabia had officially joined BRICS.

Can't see the Saudis being against hitting the Houthis.

[wargame_insomniac]

Ok but what is the problem if it is perceived as such? Will Russia be upset? Iran? Brazil?

I had said earlier:

I think US and UK unilaterally attacking the Houthis is a strategic mistake, in particular how it may appear to the moderate states in the Arab World - countries like Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Oman, UAE, Qatar, Kuwait and Bahrain should be our natural allies in the region. Otherwise we risk them being brought into the BRICS orbit. And yet Bahrain was the only Arab state who signed the recent Joint Statement arning the Houthis.

The countries that I was most concerned about I have highlighted in bold above. This was obviously written before today's confirmation that Saudi Arabia had officially joined BRICS.

Can't see the Saudis being against hitting the Houthis.

Which was the entire point of my initial post - I did nt want any co-ordinated attack on the Houthis to be solely carried out by the West - I suspect most likely by US, UK and France.

I wanted us to support the Saudis, which if Saudis were leadig the attacks on Houthis, it would be perceived VERY differently amongst the non-aligned nations.

Anyway - having circled back to my original point, I'll leave any further discussion on this point just to you.

[tomuk]

Ok but what is the problem if it is perceived as such? Will Russia be upset? Iran? Brazil?

I had said earlier:

I think US and UK unilaterally attacking the Houthis is a strategic mistake, in particular how it may appear to the moderate states in the Arab World - countries like Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Oman, UAE, Qatar, Kuwait and Bahrain should be our natural allies in the region. Otherwise we risk them being brought into the BRICS orbit. And yet Bahrain was the only Arab state who signed the recent Joint Statement arning the Houthis.

The countries that I was most concerned about I have highlighted in bold above. This was obviously written before today's confirmation that Saudi Arabia had officially joined BRICS.

Can't see the Saudis being against hitting the Houthis.

Which was the entire point of my initial post - I did nt want any co-ordinated attack on the Houthis to be solely carried out by the West - I suspect most likely by US, UK and France.

I wanted us to support the Saudis, which if Saudis were leadig the attacks on Houthis, it would be perceived VERY differently amongst the non-aligned nations.

Anyway - having circled back to my original point, I'll leave any further discussion on this point just to you.

The point which you see to be missing or not willing to answer is why the perception of the non aligned countries is so important. To put it simply one further attack after decades of interventions isn't going to change their opinion.