UK Defence Forum

Lord Jim wrote:That is just the type of capability we should be aiming at with the successor to the Puma etc. Being able to be rapidly deployed by air to support SF in operations anywhere in the world when needed. We could do now with the Puma but it isn't really set up for this type of operation. We need number of the new helicopters configured for SF operations that will be able to compliment the new SF optimised Chinooks currently on order.

It's more Wildcat sized than Puma.

yes we have wildcat , AS365 both able to support SF operations

We could still fit two Pumas or AW149s in a C-17 together with crew and support equipment. Both would give you more options that a Wildcat.

why not a last hurrah for the Puma

Tempest414 wrote:why not a last hurrah for the Puma

Do we really want to risk a Puma going down over a Taliban controlled Kabul ?

Do they want to risk any backlash of bring down a British helicopter at this point

A400m on the run in to kabul

Tempest414 wrote:Do they want to risk any backlash of bring down a British helicopter at this point

Reports now appearing in German press that its recently deployed helicopters are unable to operate owing to the level of risk.

Apparently unidentified attacker opened fire on afghan forces at the airport, German and US units returned fire. An afghan soldier was wounded.

There have been announced a new upgrade to the Sachen class for its radars
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... -frigates/

The KSK have been operating in Kabul with the 160th,

RunningStrong wrote:

Lord Jim wrote:That is just the type of capability we should be aiming at with the successor to the Puma etc. Being able to be rapidly deployed by air to support SF in operations anywhere in the world when needed. We could do now with the Puma but it isn't really set up for this type of operation. We need number of the new helicopters configured for SF operations that will be able to compliment the new SF optimised Chinooks currently on order.

It's more Wildcat sized than Puma.

...and if one believes the press is just the type of capability that wasn't needed and which the Bundeswehr had to revert to US support for. https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/4 ... ion-report
Doesn't mean it's a bad helicopter though.

J. Tattersall wrote:

RunningStrong wrote:

Lord Jim wrote:That is just the type of capability we should be aiming at with the successor to the Puma etc. Being able to be rapidly deployed by air to support SF in operations anywhere in the world when needed. We could do now with the Puma but it isn't really set up for this type of operation. We need number of the new helicopters configured for SF operations that will be able to compliment the new SF optimised Chinooks currently on order.

It's more Wildcat sized than Puma.

...and if one believes the press is just the type of capability that wasn't needed and which the Bundeswehr had to revert to US support for. https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/4 ... ion-report
Doesn't mean it's a bad helicopter though.

To be fair, the 160th seemed like the best battle bus available, so why let a little national pride get in the way?

The pilots of the 160th are likely to be far more experienced at conducting these sort of operation than their German counterparts, and the 160th has the platforms for the job. The H145Ms bought for the German KSK and their pilots are still learning their trade, but at least they have such a platform.

The UK seems insistent on using the much larger Chinook as its primary SF platform, whilst there are a small number of elderly Dauphins in service, the replacement for these along with the Puma and Bell helicopter in service is a chance to select a better platform for the job as well as one that is able to be configured for armed support missions. Then then a small number of smaller platforms would be very useful, and a modified Wildcat would fill this role nicely, but these would possibly be builds, combining element of both the naval and land based versions that are currently in service.

Lord Jim wrote: The UK seems insistent on using the much larger Chinook as its primary SF platform,

Why do you think that?

Ok maybe the Chinook is the public face of helicopter support for SF, given the configuration of some of the existing helicopters and that of those now on order, and one of the squadrons at Odiham as SF support as one of it main roles. It is also know the SF have a small flight of smaller helicopters in mainly civilian colours. Of course they most likely train to be able to utilise all Helicopter types in UK and probably allied service as well.

But having a AAC Regiment or RAF Squadron dedicated to SF support, say a mini 160th, with Chinooks, Puma successor and possibly a smaller type like an evolved Wildcat, say with a ration of 4:6:8. These would support the entire SF and their expanded Support Group wherever they are needed, with additional elements like AH-64Es and Long Range non SF Chinooks or FAA Merlins also available.

What will be interesting is Germany's defence policy after this month's federal elections, esp if CDU/CSU find themselves outside of govt. The extent to which the whole Afghanistan crisis shifts policy (or otherwise) will be one to watch.

Let's see whether Germany (& Poland) remain the only Northern Group members outside of the JEF.

Lord Jim wrote: But having a AAC Regiment or RAF Squadron dedicated to SF support, say a mini 160th, with Chinooks, Puma successor and possibly a smaller type like an evolved Wildcat, say with a ration of 4:6:8. These would support the entire SF and their expanded Support Group wherever they are needed, with additional elements like AH-64Es and Long Range non SF Chinooks or FAA Merlins also available.

Logistically you're never going to see that for the simple reason that it would mean placing multiple different airframes into the same organisation which isn't something the UK does.

Instead what you have is flights that sit within the single-type squadron structure, which will include experienced crews and potentially modified aircraft to support the additional needs.

Type 212CD submarine- much larger and with stealth form

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... ch-larger/

Berlin demonstrates European solidarity.........with Canberra

German General Eberhard Zorn announced he met his Australian counterpart, Admiral David L. Johnston, in Berlin, to sign a new space military alliance.

He said: "We, Australia and Germany, want to deepen our dialogue on space security and the space situation.

"To this end, Admiral David L. Johnston and I signed a letter of intent for the 'Military Space Partnership' today in Berlin.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics ... deal-aukus

The Germans are also trying to secure the Australian Army's IFV contract.

Lord Jim wrote:The Germans are also trying to secure the Australian Army's IFV contract.

and

https://www.euractiv.com/section/politi ... arine-row/

Germany declines to back France in submarine row

And with that the hopes of an Airbus A319 based MPA died...wonder when the French will admit defeat and buy P-8...

Anyone who thinks this is an 'interim' purchase needs to give their head a swivel...

So Airbus takes a supporting role in NGF to Dassault and proceeds to lose MAWS down the line. With a left/green-leaning government the concept of Remote Carriers (an Airbus-lead FCAS strand) looks decidedly unhealthy too considering their resistance to armed UAVs.

Turbulent times for Airbus

Been on the cards for a while but still surprised that Germany didn't totally back a airbus/eu project like a A319 platform....even as a prestige job creation/skills retention initiative