German Armed Forces

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Defiance
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Re: German Armed Forces

Post by Defiance »

German Naval Chief resigns following his comments about Russia regarding Ukraine - no explanation needed, just watch the video in the article and see why that made Ukraine pretty unhappy.

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... -comments/

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Tempest414
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Re: German Armed Forces

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well there goes any political career along with the naval one

However some points are close

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Re: German Armed Forces

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After Angela Merkel's 16 years of German Cjnacellor with CDU party, there was always likely to be some change in Germen foriegn policy under Scholz's traffic light coliation of SPD/FDP/Greens. especially with German dependance upon Russian natural gas with Nord Stream 2 piepline.

I am not sure what private help the German goverment has offered Ukraine, if any, but they don't appear to have done nothing publicly. If they would nt intervene on Ukraine, would they intervene for Baltic States or their neighbours, Poland.

Yes I know that despite Ukraine moving closer to Nato, it had not yet achieved full membership of NATO, just Intensified Dialogue with NATO. So Article 5 of the North Atlantic treaty, requiring member states to come to the aid of any member state subject to an armed attack, is not relevant with Ukraine.

But if Germany (and also France) are not more publically vocal over any potenial Russian invsaion of Ukraine, then how much could we rely on Germany to be defiant against Russian trangressions to protect the Baltic States or Poland?
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Re: German Armed Forces

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The current NATO Command Structure means nothing can really be done in an emergency until the political decision to enact Article 5 takes place. The manifestation of warfare in the grey zone is an issue for NATO members as is defining the line between this and conventional warfare. How Germany together with Belgium or Turkey or any member of NATO not bordering the possible threat would act has yet t o be truely tested. Mind you taking of intervention in Ukraine is a bit of a red herring as few if any NATO members have even mentioned that is a possibility. Even then by the time NATO got moving the Russians would likely already have achieved their objectives. SACEUR needs to regain some or all of his (or her) powers rom during the cold war nad have the ability to get htings moving whilst the Politicians decide.
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Re: German Armed Forces

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Timmymagic
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Re: German Armed Forces

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Been predicting this for a while....I was thinking 30 odd F-35, looks like they're going for 35-40. Which also means....an additional Typhoon order is in the offing, potentially including Typhoon ECR...good news for Airbus and BAE.

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Re: German Armed Forces

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Timmymagic wrote: 13 Feb 2022, 13:51 .good news for Airbus and BAE.
I'd be tempted to say, good news for Dassault too!

If it goes ahead it will be interesting to see what industrial benefits they're offered. Could well get them hooked on F-35. The Lockheed part of LockMart has quite the history on winning over German defence staff...

In other German defence news, looks like the joint EU A400M squadron is "under review" (article behind a seriously tough paywall):



https://esut.de/2022/02/meldungen/32421 ... -lechfeld/

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Re: German Armed Forces

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If they do go the f35 and more typhoon route they wont be buying a new fighter for an awfully long time (2050 plus) timeframe.

On a400m I can see them all being at a single base mind u I’m surprised they haven’t tried to move some into Eindhoven

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Re: German Armed Forces

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SW1 wrote: 13 Feb 2022, 15:58 If they do go the f35 and more typhoon route they wont be buying a new fighter for an awfully long time (2050 plus) timeframe.

On a400m I can see them all being at a single base mind u I’m surprised they haven’t tried to move some into Eindhoven
The F-35 buy will be very limited, just enough for the nuclear mission. The Typhoon's they'll be buying (could be c60-70, on top of the 28 from Project Quadriga) are to replace Tornado.

That will effectively replace the Tornado and Typhoon Tranche 1's in German service, but....the Tranche 2 and 3 Typhoon's will need to be replaced in turn after 2040 which will still leave space for FCAS. Not a whole lot of them though...probably c100. They could then replace the later batches of Typhoon with FCAS after 2050 though.

By the sounds of it with A400M the current base will be maxed out with 40 aircraft. The German's might get lucky, the current issues with Ukraine might lead to a general rise in defence spending in Europe (and elsewhere) which could get them some interest in those 13 aircraft, which they appear to want shot of. If I was in the RAF I'd be tempted to put in a cheeky offer....especially given the recent news that the RAF may be looking for more. You'd hope (probably in vain though) that the recent airlifts to Ukraine and Afghanistan may have given our politiicians a view on how useful a large air transport fleet is....

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Re: German Armed Forces

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I really hope the UK makes an offer on those spare A400s Germany has.

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Re: German Armed Forces

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German Armed Forces are about to be flooded with cash....they will now hit 2% in 2024 (not aim for it...) and 100bn EUR (yes billion...) is being proposed as a strategic security fund.

I agree with the analysis...F-35 for the nuclear mission is now nailed on, suspect Typhoon ECR is as well...




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Re: German Armed Forces

Post by Jdam »

Someone just filled their pants after current events. :wtf:

I think taking some of that money and investing in securing their energy needs (not just a German problem if we are honest) and remove the need to reply on imports from Russia would also be a good start.

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Re: German Armed Forces

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Glad to see Germany stepping up to the plate

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Re: German Armed Forces

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Timmymagic wrote: 27 Feb 2022, 10:56 German Armed Forces are about to be flooded with cash....they will now hit 2% in 2024 (not aim for it...) and 100bn EUR (yes billion...) is being proposed as a strategic security fund.

I agree with the analysis...F-35 for the nuclear mission is now nailed on, suspect Typhoon ECR is as well...



It only took the destruction of a European country and its occupation by maruding russians for the Germans to get their fingers out of their collective %$#%# ....

Germany holds some responsbility for what is happening in ukraine by spending so much effort in attempting to stop sanctions against russia and stopping the supploy of defensive weapons to ukraine ....

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Re: German Armed Forces

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Stand fast Warsaw your not the target…

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Re: German Armed Forces

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Jdam wrote: 27 Feb 2022, 11:12 Someone just filled their pants after current events. :wtf:

I think taking some of that money and investing in securing their energy needs (not just a German problem if we are honest) and remove the need to reply on imports from Russia would also be a good start.
Can they reactivate their nuclear power stations that they foolishly closed down early because they thought would be a good idea to buy MORE natural gas from Russia via Nordstream 2. I am not sure the new SDP / Green / FDP Coalition government thought thst through carefully enough.....

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Re: German Armed Forces

Post by inch »

Wondering if other countries are now going to increase their defence expenditure budgets in Europe , will France increase which I suspect would make uk increase also ?

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Re: German Armed Forces

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inch wrote: 27 Feb 2022, 12:14 Wondering if other countries are now going to increase their defence expenditure budgets in Europe , will France increase which I suspect would make uk increase also ?
We all should!

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Re: German Armed Forces

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SW1 wrote: 13 Feb 2022, 15:58 If they do go the f35 and more typhoon route they wont be buying a new fighter for an awfully long time (2050 plus) timeframe.
Timmymagic wrote: 14 Feb 2022, 08:41 The F-35 buy will be very limited, just enough for the nuclear mission. The Typhoon's they'll be buying (could be c60-70, on top of the 28 from Project Quadriga) are to replace Tornado.
I am in the latter camp on this: yes, nuclear mission and some ECR for aiding with penetrating defences (just like the SH fleet was seen to be composed). Those ECRs will count towards the 'bridge building' that additional Eurofighter orders have been for, so far
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Re: German Armed Forces

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Typhoon plus F-35 is becoming a very potent combination for those who operate both types. This will be even more so once the former get more advanced electronics.

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Re: German Armed Forces

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Lord Jim wrote: 28 Feb 2022, 00:07 Typhoon plus F-35 is becoming a very potent combination for those who operate both types. This will be even more so once the former get more advanced electronics.
Presume this is equivalent of USAF exercises of mixing F15 Strike Eagles with F35, where they are trying stealthed F35 to pick out targets and transmit the data to the F15 acting as long ranged missile trucks to take out those targets.

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Re: German Armed Forces

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Re: German Armed Forces

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We have more than enough tankers for our Fast Jet Fleet especially if we brought all out Voyagers into RAF service. The paltform itself though is unable to realise its full potential as it cannot carry cargo on its upper deck like previous RAF platform like the Tristar and VC-10 Tankers. Installing a cargo door should be easily done as the owners should see the benefit to their leasing opportunities having a dual role aircraft able to carry any combination of passengers and cargo.

I do think that we need to follow the French and German example and utilise the ability of the Atlas to carry out the AAR role. All A400s are plumbed for this role and simply need the AAR pods installed on the wings and some minor modifications to the electronics etc.. This could be phase one of bringing a number of Atlas into the SF support role, being able to refuel their helicopters as well as those of the 1st Aviation Brigade.

Back to Germany Proper though, I wonder what kit etc. the Bundeswehr will spend its money on after it covers the cost of bringing the units its has up to scratch, which is going to cost quite a bit. The Army seems to be heading in the right direction but does need more mobile GBAD with greater capabilities than their Stingers. They as well as other NATO Armies really need a 21st Century Gepard to compliment their SHORAD systems, Starstreak & LMM in our case. The German Army also needs the second batch of Pumas to replace the remaining Marders, and additional Boxers to replace more of the remaining M113 variants. I also think Germany need to revisit the idea of Territorial units like they had in the Cold War, though probably not as extensive. Having units to provide rear area security is even more applicable today then it was back in the 1970s and 80s.

The Air Force is also getting its act together especially if it actually goes ahead with the F-35 purchase. A combination of this and teh Typhoon is a world leading capability.

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Re: German Armed Forces

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Lord Jim wrote: 01 Mar 2022, 16:55 revisit the idea of Territorial units like they had in the Cold War, though probably not as extensive. Having units to provide rear area security is even more applicable today then it was back in the 1970s and 80s.
The play book is straight from the '80s... thanks to V. Gerasimov, so the 'more applicable' might be contested. He is not only he current Chief of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, but also first Deputy Defence Minister.
- so he will be out with the First Minister. The former was egging Putin on (ohh, does it look like a payday for him right now) and the Deputy was drafting the plan... not quite going to plan
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
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Re: German Armed Forces

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Lord Jim wrote: 01 Mar 2022, 16:55 We have more than enough tankers for our Fast Jet Fleet especially if we brought all out Voyagers into RAF service. The paltform itself though is unable to realise its full potential as it cannot carry cargo on its upper deck like previous RAF platform like the Tristar and VC-10 Tankers. Installing a cargo door should be easily done as the owners should see the benefit to their leasing opportunities having a dual role aircraft able to carry any combination of passengers and cargo.

I do think that we need to follow the French and German example and utilise the ability of the Atlas to carry out the AAR role. All A400s are plumbed for this role and simply need the AAR pods installed on the wings and some minor modifications to the electronics etc.. This could be phase one of bringing a number of Atlas into the SF support role, being able to refuel their helicopters as well as those of the 1st Aviation Brigade.

Back to Germany Proper though, I wonder what kit etc. the Bundeswehr will spend its money on after it covers the cost of bringing the units its has up to scratch, which is going to cost quite a bit. The Army seems to be heading in the right direction but does need more mobile GBAD with greater capabilities than their Stingers. They as well as other NATO Armies really need a 21st Century Gepard to compliment their SHORAD systems, Starstreak & LMM in our case. The German Army also needs the second batch of Pumas to replace the remaining Marders, and additional Boxers to replace more of the remaining M113 variants. I also think Germany need to revisit the idea of Territorial units like they had in the Cold War, though probably not as extensive. Having units to provide rear area security is even more applicable today then it was back in the 1970s and 80s.

The Air Force is also getting its act together especially if it actually goes ahead with the F-35 purchase. A combination of this and teh Typhoon is a world leading capability.
the contract on the A330 will not allow it however RAF A400 pilots have done some cross training in AAR they just can't do it in RAF air craft

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