UK Defence Forum

TheLoneRanger wrote: ↑08 May 2023, 17:30

Spitfire9 wrote: ↑08 May 2023, 11:11 Turkish foreign minister is asking for money back on F-35. This could inject extra tensions into an F-16 deal with US, raising the chances of Turkey buying something else (eg Typhoon) to cover requirements up to the time TF-X is integrated into the Turkish air force.

Indian source: https://idrw.org/turkiye-does-not-ask-t ... ore-311440

The Americans have really messed up their relationship with Turkey. They sanctioned Turkey for buying the S400 ( imho - they should not have bought this junk .. ) but then did not sanction India for buying ther S400. That kind of lack of even handed approach really sticks with the Turks. The Kaan jet is a reflection of the fact that Turkey is large enough to go its own way if it choses to do so ...

Ron5 wrote: ↑09 May 2023, 13:21

TheLoneRanger wrote: ↑08 May 2023, 17:30

Spitfire9 wrote: ↑08 May 2023, 11:11 Turkish foreign minister is asking for money back on F-35. This could inject extra tensions into an F-16 deal with US, raising the chances of Turkey buying something else (eg Typhoon) to cover requirements up to the time TF-X is integrated into the Turkish air force.

Indian source: https://idrw.org/turkiye-does-not-ask-t ... ore-311440

The Americans have really messed up their relationship with Turkey. They sanctioned Turkey for buying the S400 ( imho - they should not have bought this junk .. ) but then did not sanction India for buying ther S400. That kind of lack of even handed approach really sticks with the Turks. The Kaan jet is a reflection of the fact that Turkey is large enough to go its own way if it choses to do so ...

Not sanctions, just the ability to purchase F-35's was taken away. India isn't buying F-35's so not relevant.

Sen. Bob Menendez (D-N.J.) said on May 10 that the Biden administration will respect his informal veto of a sale of Lockheed Martin F-16 Block 70/72s to Turkey, and warned that he will retaliate if any deal is made with Ankara.

The remarks at a conference in Washington about Cyprus show that Menendez does not expect the White House to approve a sale of F-16s to Turkey in exchange for President Recep Erdogan’s approval of Sweden’s bid for NATO membership.

Spitfire9 wrote: ↑11 May 2023, 15:24

Sen. Bob Menendez (D-N.J.) said on May 10 that the Biden administration will respect his informal veto of a sale of Lockheed Martin F-16 Block 70/72s to Turkey, and warned that he will retaliate if any deal is made with Ankara.

The remarks at a conference in Washington about Cyprus show that Menendez does not expect the White House to approve a sale of F-16s to Turkey in exchange for President Recep Erdogan’s approval of Sweden’s bid for NATO membership.

https://aviationweek.com/defense-space/ ... n-menendez

Sounds to me like Turkey won't be getting F-16 any time soon. The TAI Kaan (TF-X) under development will not enter service in numbers perhaps before early-mid 2030's so I raise the chances of Turkey turning to Typhoon. Anyone agree?

Spitfire9 wrote: ↑11 May 2023, 15:24

Sen. Bob Menendez (D-N.J.) said on May 10 that the Biden administration will respect his informal veto of a sale of Lockheed Martin F-16 Block 70/72s to Turkey, and warned that he will retaliate if any deal is made with Ankara.

The remarks at a conference in Washington about Cyprus show that Menendez does not expect the White House to approve a sale of F-16s to Turkey in exchange for President Recep Erdogan’s approval of Sweden’s bid for NATO membership.

https://aviationweek.com/defense-space/ ... n-menendez

Sounds to me like Turkey won't be getting F-16 any time soon. The TAI Kaan (TF-X) under development will not enter service in numbers perhaps before early-mid 2030's so I raise the chances of Turkey turning to Typhoon. Anyone agree?

Timmymagic wrote: ↑25 May 2023, 10:51 Poland looking to acquire 2 additional squadrons of multi-role aircraft...in a fairly short timeframe....

inch wrote: ↑26 May 2023, 23:03 Is the kf 21 a more advanced fighter than the typhoon offering to Poland,more stealthy I'm guessing so able to survive better in the Russian environment? Or is it cheaper than typhoon?,I'm sure someone above my pay grade will tell me

Spitfire9 wrote: ↑29 May 2023, 19:57 I don't think that Typhoon has any real prospects in Poland. If Poland needs an 'emergency' purchase of fighters, I am sure it has Norway and Netherlands' phone number. I think that both those countries could supply retiring F-16 very quickly (if they are not earmarked for Ukraine).

Timmymagic wrote: ↑29 May 2023, 20:37
Norway's F-16 have already been sold, principally to Romania.

Spitfire9 wrote: ↑29 May 2023, 19:57

inch wrote: ↑26 May 2023, 23:03 Is the kf 21 a more advanced fighter than the typhoon offering to Poland,more stealthy I'm guessing so able to survive better in the Russian environment? Or is it cheaper than typhoon?,I'm sure someone above my pay grade will tell me

It definitely has a stealthier form than Typhoon but no internal weapons bay (yet).
I don't know the exact flyaway price of Typhoon or KF-21 but I am almost completely sure that Typhoon is considerably higher.
Poland is interested in KF-21 medium/long term (Poland has offered to buy out Indonesia's stake in KF-21, Indonesia being a delinquent partner when it comes to paying its share of development costs).

I don't think that Typhoon has any real prospects in Poland. If Poland needs an 'emergency' purchase of fighters, I am sure it has Norway and Netherlands' phone number. I think that both those countries could supply retiring F-16 very quickly (if they are not earmarked for Ukraine).

Erdogan is back in power in Turkey. I see Turkey as the only possible European customer for Typhoon - and that only if the US Congress blocks supply of F-16 and/or F-16 upgrades.