Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Contains threads on Royal Air Force equipment of the past, present and future.
Zeno
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Zeno »

Typhoon's (Call sign Grinch) are gearing up for their annual secret mission to North Pole where they hope to bring back haunches of venison attached to their hardpoints , for their mess to celebrate Christmas, infrared tracking allows them to detect flashing red noses

Timmymagic
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Timmymagic »

Heard an interesting rumour recently....

No source as the guy saying it was from Chile. Apparently Chile is very interested in the UK's Typhoon Tranche 1, apparently it has been stated by a number of officers...they're looking at 24 of them for purchase in the near future...that would be most if not all of the remaining Tranche 1 fleet. Like the E-3D purchase it was supposed to be pretty quiet..

Not sure I buy it as the same person also said they were interested in the UK's remaining AH-64D following the conclusion of the E upgrade process. The numbers (24) did not match the reality of how many AH-64D would be available from the UK's fleet following the upgrade of 50 to E standard. I think there are at most 15 left over from the initial 67 purchased.

Chile is a UK ally though, and takes defence very seriously....but...they already have a pretty hefty qualitative edge over their neighbours, even more so following the Argentinian cancellation of an attempt to purchase new combat aircraft. In terms of replacing older kit they do need to get rid of the F-5, but that fleet is only 14 a/c, with F-16 being purchased from the Netherlands I would have suspected that they were far more likely to move to a solely F-16 based fleet.

Spitfire9
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Spitfire9 »

Timmymagic wrote: 21 Dec 2022, 11:20 Chile is a UK ally though, and takes defence very seriously....but...they already have a pretty hefty qualitative edge over their neighbours, even more so following the Argentinian cancellation of an attempt to purchase new combat aircraft. In terms of replacing older kit they do need to get rid of the F-5, but that fleet is only 14 a/c, with F-16 being purchased from the Netherlands I would have suspected that they were far more likely to move to a solely F-16 based fleet.
I agree. I see no persuasive argument for Chile to go for a mix of Typhoon and F-16 instead of sticking to the one type.

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Tempest414
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Tempest414 »

Timmymagic wrote: 21 Dec 2022, 11:20 Heard an interesting rumour recently....

No source as the guy saying it was from Chile. Apparently Chile is very interested in the UK's Typhoon Tranche 1, apparently it has been stated by a number of officers...they're looking at 24 of them for purchase in the near future...that would be most if not all of the remaining Tranche 1 fleet. Like the E-3D purchase it was supposed to be pretty quiet..

Not sure I buy it as the same person also said they were interested in the UK's remaining AH-64D following the conclusion of the E upgrade process. The numbers (24) did not match the reality of how many AH-64D would be available from the UK's fleet following the upgrade of 50 to E standard. I think there are at most 15 left over from the initial 67 purchased.

Chile is a UK ally though, and takes defence very seriously....but...they already have a pretty hefty qualitative edge over their neighbours, even more so following the Argentinian cancellation of an attempt to purchase new combat aircraft. In terms of replacing older kit they do need to get rid of the F-5, but that fleet is only 14 a/c, with F-16 being purchased from the Netherlands I would have suspected that they were far more likely to move to a solely F-16 based fleet.
There are bases in the South that they can't operate f-16 from and this was one of the reasons for keeping F-5 they are more likely to replace F-5 with FA-50

serge750
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by serge750 »

If the price is right.....would be good to see some Tiffies in S America ! maybe escorting the recently bought sentrys...... OK quite unlikely but so were the sentrys ..... :D

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by SD67 »

SW1 wrote: 18 Nov 2022, 10:44
Timmymagic wrote: 18 Nov 2022, 10:20
SW1 wrote: 18 Nov 2022, 08:59 Ukraine has europes second largest known gas reserves, norway being the largest.
Given we're moving away from gas, and those fields are undeveloped in the main, it doesn't make a huge amount of difference...

Also...if they've got loads of gas....they could buy some Tempest in the future...get them onboard with some free Typhoon. Create a political obligation, training and staff relationships, trust in UK/Europe as a supplier etc...

If we were going to build a load of new Typhoon they would clearly go to the RAF, who could then send their older ones as a donation.

But we're not going to do that....

The Tranche 1 Typhoons are the only real source for a free, or negligible purchase cost, top end air to air asset (with some useful life left in it) that is available to the 'Western' alliance in any real numbers for the next 15 years. It's a golden opportunity to do some real good, with major geopolitical advantages for the UK, Typhoon partners, NATO and the West in general, whilst simultaneously giving the Russian's a real headache (they're not going to go away completely quietly). I'd also add that if Sweden/Saab were smart they'd do the same with Gripen C. A fair few of them in storage or with leases that will expire (Czechia will replace with F-35). Perfect platform to replace Ukraine's MiG-29 alongside Typhoon (weapons commonality, lots of shared component suppliers for ease of support arrangements etc.). Hi-Lo mix, from Europe...not the US.
It is most certainly an opportunity I doubt though that this government and treasury orthodoxy sees it as one would req long term thought. The Americans and in particular the French are much more dynamic in this sphere. Loans against future exploration rights access if it made the treasury happier..

What ever way you wish work it, it’s better to buy new than upgrade 15-20 year old aircraft.

I think the idea were moving away from gas in the next 10-15 years unrealistic especially if it’s to be replaced by windmills. If the government thru its lot in with nuclear I could see it but not much evidence so far.
No one is moving away from gas it’s a myth. You need gas at a minimum as backup for the windmills and also industrial applications where there is no substitute. And green hydrogen is Currently 9 times the cost of fossil fuel. Gas will be needed fora long long time which is why Putin started the war in the first place
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Spitfire9
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Spitfire9 »

Turkey buying Typhoon due to US refusal to supply F-16 seems less likely

'The Biden administration is reportedly ready to approve the sale of 40 single-engined Lockheed Martin fighter jets, on the condition Ankara drops objections to Sweden and Finland joining NATO.'

https://www.flightglobal.com/defence/fixed-wing

inch
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by inch »

Now what a surprise not,lol,that was what turkey was holding out for all along f35s for letting Sweden and Finland get in NATO ,played USA well and won

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Spitfire9 »

So, Turkey looks to have gone as a customer... but Egypt seems to have become more promising (although I do not understand why it would want Typhoon in addition to Rafale)

'Egyptian President Abdel Fattah El-Sisi is reportedly committed to acquiring the Eurofighter Typhoon from Italy to further diversify and modernise the Egyptian Air Force, and is determined to prevent ongoing US efforts to blunt Egyptian capabilities in an effort to maintain Israel’s qualitative military edge (QME).

Egypt is, therefore, determined to have a ‘full spec’ Typhoon with AESA radar and the Meteor beyond-visual-range air-to-air missile (BVRAAM).

All the Typhoons will be new-build aircraft assembled in Italy, and not second-hand Italian Tranche 1 jets, as was once expected, although delivery details have yet to be disclosed.'

https://www.timesaerospace.aero/feature ... ern-family

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Ron5 »

inch wrote: 16 Jan 2023, 22:18 Now what a surprise not,lol,that was what turkey was holding out for all along f35s for letting Sweden and Finland get in NATO ,played USA well and won
The US has given permission for Turkey to spend $billions on buying F-16's. You wish the UK would be such a loser :D

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by inch »

But Ron5 ,turkey never wanted typhoon or f16 they wanted f35 all along , they've played the game and found something USA wants to get the f35 in the end ,if reports are true and f35 for turkey is being granted

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Ron5 »

inch wrote: 18 Jan 2023, 17:06 But Ron5 ,turkey never wanted typhoon or f16 they wanted f35 all along , they've played the game and found something USA wants to get the f35 in the end ,if reports are true and f35 for turkey is being granted
F-16. Read the news. It's like the UK selling them Hawks.

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Spitfire9 »

inch wrote: 18 Jan 2023, 17:06 But Ron5 ,turkey never wanted typhoon or f16 they wanted f35 all along , they've played the game and found something USA wants to get the f35 in the end ,if reports are true and f35 for turkey is being granted
Even if US were to relent on denying Turkey F-35, their TF-X 5G/5G- project appears to be advancing apace. I will not be astonished if it flies this year. The F110-engined version could enter service 5/6 years from now. TF-X is home built, the F110 engines may be home built under licence, most of the systems in the aircraft are home built, most of the weapons on the aircraft home built. Why revert to F-35, having got this far? And what would it cost to have LM integrate the large number of Turkish missiles etc intended for use by their T-FX?

PS Will be interesting to see how performance of TF-X compares to Typhoon

inch
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by inch »

One would like to think TF-X would be that much better than typhoon in certain areas after time moved on since original typhoon was developed,not so sure with future typhoon upgrades radar sensors etc but would have thought basic aircraft a generation better than typhoon (stealth etc)

inch
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by inch »

Think they would want f35b for their carriers with UAVs

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Timmymagic »

Turkey reportedly back in the frame...again...take with a pinch of salt...

Type 23 purchase was reported elsewhere the other day (for 1 frigate initially). This could of course be meant to put pressure on the US to provide the F-16...which the US is wisely using as leverage over Sweden and Finlands entry to NATO. This seems to read as new build Typhoon rather than Tranche 1 (because of the overall value)...I could be wrong though.


SD67
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by SD67 »

Typhoon batch 1 as an interim?

abc123
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by abc123 »

Timmymagic wrote: 20 Jan 2023, 16:41 Turkey reportedly back in the frame...again...take with a pinch of salt...

Type 23 purchase was reported elsewhere the other day (for 1 frigate initially). This could of course be meant to put pressure on the US to provide the F-16...which the US is wisely using as leverage over Sweden and Finlands entry to NATO. This seems to read as new build Typhoon rather than Tranche 1 (because of the overall value)...I could be wrong though.

UK shuldn't sell that tinpot dictator water gun, much less anything more dangerous...
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…

Spitfire9
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Spitfire9 »

abc123 wrote: 20 Jan 2023, 18:14 UK shuldn't sell that tinpot dictator water gun, much less anything more dangerous...
I agree. I don't want to see civilians being killed with British kit. UK government does not see things that way, though, does it? I think our govt sees

Ukrainians being killed by Russia = bad.
Kurds being killed by Turkey = not that bad.
Yemenis being killed by Saudi Arabia = not that bad.

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by albedo »

Not saying it's an easy call, but if you want a UK domestic arms industry then you can't be TOO choosy who you sell it to. The UK market for all types of arms is just too small to support domestic manufacture without export into a very competitive international marketplace or participation in big workshare development projects.

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by SD67 »

We’ll thank goodness your world is such a perfect place that we don’t need nasty allies like Stalin

Turkey dropped their objections to Finland and Sweden joining nato. UK drops ban on arms sales to turkey may 2022. Agreements reached on the sideline for arms. Turkish drones taking out Russian tanks. Maybe some quiet assurances given about human rights.
Bottom line is NATO now has three more very strong members, the fact that turkey is also an ancient enemy of Iran is a bonus

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by tomuk »

This just doesn't sound right apart from the second hand C130s. Why do they need engines for their tanks? I thought they were building their own V12 in country. Same with the frigates their building brand new equivalents for themselves and for export.

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Phil Sayers »

In fairness Turkey generally (and Erdogan personally) would have pretty good grounds for saying that it is the rest of NATO who have been a poor ally to them in recent years rather than they having been a poor NATO ally.

1. We enlisted the YPG as an ally to fight ISIS despite knowing full well they are very closely linked with the PKK (who we list as a prescribed terrorist organisation) and have a very fluid crossover of both leadership and membership. The PKK's war in Turkey has killed over 30k people and it is hardly a surprise that Turkey would be extremely apprehensive / alarmed / angry / bitter / feeling totally betrayed, unvalued and disregarded about legitimate concerns over the YPG taking control of a large potion of the border with a deep safe haven beyond the border. This is not really any different to informing Israel that we intended to enlist Hezbollah to fight ISIS and expecting them to be fine with it. It would have been far better to instead enlist Syrian Arab rebels to fight ISIS despite that causing more short term headaches and a much increased chance of directly fighting Assad's forces (which would not have been a bad thing anyway).

2. When Turkey showed real balls and were clearly indicating they were prepared to escalate the fight in Syria in response to the Russians showing up in late 2015 they shot down a Russian SU-24 that (probably deliberately) had strayed across the border. They expected forthright NATO backing and instead got uncomfortable silence / implicit criticism in public statements. That then caused them to reappraise their entire approach to the war in Syria and the consequences can hardly be described as resulting in good outcomes.

3. On the night of the 2016 Turkish coup attempt they expected strong statements condemning an illegal attempt to seize power from a democratically elected government. They did not get anything of the sort (indeed started to suspect US involvement) which is part of the reason that Erdogan no longer feels a need to abide by democratic norms.

To be clear I do not like Erdogan (who I view as being a despicable, illiberal despot albeit one who could well argue they have been prodded that way) and nor do I approve of the relentless 'bullying' that Turkey displays towards the YPG / SDF / civilians living in NE Syria. However, there is plenty of blame to go around here, primarily caused by Obama prioritising the short-term interests of the US and disregarding the long term core security interests of an important ally, rather than Erdogan / Turkey being to blame.
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Spitfire9
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Spitfire9 »

albedo wrote: 20 Jan 2023, 20:48 Not saying it's an easy call, but if you want a UK domestic arms industry then you can't be TOO choosy who you sell it to. The UK market for all types of arms is just too small to support domestic manufacture without export into a very competitive international marketplace or participation in big workshare development projects.
I agree but for a liberal democracy with personal freedom, enabling govts of other countries to undermine those values is somewhat inappropriate/unethical/completely unacceptable.

Regarding a possible Typhoon plus other items deal, that makes sense for Turkey to prepare in case Congress refuses F-16 to Turkey. I have read that 2 prominent Congress members are determined to block permission. However...
Under U.S. law, Congress can block a sale by passing a resolution of disapproval after a formal notification of a sale, but it is unlikely to do so if President Joe Biden decides to go ahead despite lawmakers' objections. While Congress has passed such resolutions in the past, it has never mustered the two-thirds majorities needed in both chambers to overcome a presidential veto.
so it looks likely that the deal will get through with some shenanigans over Finland and Sweden's NATO accession.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden- ... 023-01-13/

SD67
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by SD67 »

Spitfire9 wrote: 20 Jan 2023, 22:42
I agree but for a liberal democracy with personal freedom, enabling govts of other countries to undermine those values is somewhat inappropriate/unethical/completely unacceptable.
But BAE and Rolls are already there helping them with their next gen fighter.no one blocked that

Turkey are alot closer to liberal democracy than KSA or Egypt - both of whom have purchased Thphoon. They are also - in principle at least - a secular state. And a NATO member. And - officially - a candidate for EU membership

If we can pull Turkey decisively into the western camp it will be a massive strategic achievement.

Way OTT

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