Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Contains threads on Royal Air Force equipment of the past, present and future.
Defiance
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Defiance »

That past-90 degree feature is pretty neat. It can do EA against a target and not have to close distance, something F-35 can't do as the array is fixed (for now at least).

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

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Ron5
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

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From Flight ..
Italy backs UK radar for Eurofighter fleet modernisation
By Craig Hoyle14 September 2021

Italy appears set to join the UK in acquiring a Leonardo-built active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar as part of a modernisation activity for part of its Eurofighter combat aircraft fleet.

Announced on 14 September, the development comes after the defence ministries in Rome and London signed a Statement of Principles document related to collaboration on the European Common Radar System (ECRS) Mk2 sensor.

Rome intends to integrate Leonardo’s ECRS Mk2 sensor with some of its Eurofighters

“The move represents the first step towards Italy’s full participation in the ECRS Mk2 programme,” Leonardo says.

An joint team will soon begin work to incorporate Italian industry into the activity, which is already under way ahead of the future integration of new sensors with some of the UK Royal Air Force’s (RAF’s) Eurofighter Typhoons.

“The first stage of collaboration, to take place this autumn, will see a team of engineers from Leonardo’s Nerviano, Milan-based radar site join the Mk2 development team at Leonardo’s Edinburgh site,” the company says.

These personnel will be involved in continued development work, and in “acquiring system design capabilities that will ensure that the Italian MoD has sovereign control over the new radar system at every stage of its operational life”, Leonardo says.

Rome is the last of the four core Eurofighter nations to have selected an AESA radar, with Germany and Spain on course to field ECRS Mk1 sensors produced by Hensoldt and Indra, respectively. Export customers Kuwait and Qatar, meanwhile, will field Typhoons equipped with Mk0 sensors.

Leonardo says initial system hardware for the UK’s AESA standard is on schedule for delivery to BAE Systems’ Warton site in Lancashire next year, for aircraft integration and flight trials use. Initial operational capability with the RAF is due to be achieved during 2025.

Leonardo is advancing AESA radar testing for the UK at its Edinburgh facilities

As part of a UK-led Typhoon offer to Finland, Helsinki has also been offered industrial participation in the ECRS Mk2 programme. A decision on the nation’s HX contest is expected later this year, with the Eurofighter facing competition from the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, Dassault Rafale, Lockheed Martin F-35A and Saab Gripen E/F.

Lord Jim
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Lord Jim »

Could this new radar form the basis of the one that would initially be installed on TEMPEST? Also are we updating Tranches two and three or just three? Shame is we end up with fleets within fleets again.

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Ron5 »

Lord Jim wrote:Could this new radar form the basis of the one that would initially be installed on TEMPEST? Also are we updating Tranches two and three or just three? Shame is we end up with fleets within fleets again.
The Tempest lot have said that the technology will feed through to Tempest but not the actual radar.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

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Lord Jim wrote: start benefiting from discoveries made within the TEMPEST programme as well
We will need to as the latest&greatest version will be the one for Luftwaffe. The radars parting ways (Hensoldt for the Lw) can be seen either as a positive - competition inducing innovation as one could conclude from the latest announcement - or as two dead ends, in the longer run, as the ordered quantities will not be able to sustain continuous production/ nxt-gen development.
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Ron5 »

ArmChairCivvy wrote:
Lord Jim wrote: start benefiting from discoveries made within the TEMPEST programme as well
We will need to as the latest&greatest version will be the one for Luftwaffe. The radars parting ways (Hensoldt for the Lw) can be seen either as a positive - competition inducing innovation as one could conclude from the latest announcement - or as two dead ends, in the longer run, as the ordered quantities will not be able to sustain continuous production/ nxt-gen development.
No, the latest and greatest is the version being developed for the RAF. Do some reading, it will have capabilities that the German one can only dream of :D

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Lord Jim »

Yep the Typhoon FGR6 will have a radar any other plane in western service can only dream of. The nearest two to this would be the full radar suite planned for the F-22 , but which was cancelled to save money, of the F-35s radar, though that of Typhoon should be more effective due to the =greater size of the "Dish". In theory the new weapon systems being developed for TEMPEST would also be compatible with this new radar, and this should allow both the Typhoon and F-35 use said weapons if they are available before TEMPEST and its related systems come on line.

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Timmymagic »

Bit surprised by this, the direct quote from the Greek Defence Minister isn't in the article so how much weight to put behind it I have no idea...

https://www.aerotime.aero/29315-greece- ... r-typhoons

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by dmereifield »

Timmymagic wrote:Bit surprised by this, the direct quote from the Greek Defence Minister isn't in the article so how much weight to put behind it I have no idea...

https://www.aerotime.aero/29315-greece- ... r-typhoons
Would be nice, but unless we almost gifted them wouldn't it be more cost effective for them to buy more Rafale from France? Plus, given the current UK-French relationship and the wider Greek-French defence pact, France will pile on so much pressure to avoid this happening...

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by serge750 »

I would gift them to Greece in the interest of NATO co-operation & maybe a interest in the Tempest end product in the far future ....or more 2nd hand Tiffies when they get replaced - & the french reaction would be a bonus :lol: but i agree the french would put loads of pressure on the possible transfer

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

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serge750 wrote:I would gift them to Greece in the interest of NATO co-operation & maybe a interest in the Tempest end product in the far future ....or more 2nd hand Tiffies when they get replaced - & the french reaction would be a bonus but i agree the french would put loads of pressure on the possible transfer
Unless the Greeks coming bearing cold hard cash, and a lot of it at that, we should do no such thing. The T1 aircraft have a lot of value in terms of spares for the UK's remaining T2 and T3 aircraft...we also have decent relations with Turkey (even with the loathsome Erdogan in charge). Unless the Greeks would be willing to pay substantially more than their parts value we should avoid like the plague.

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by seaspear »

If there was a package it might be tempting to involve ships but ,
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... -frigates/
so unless Greece wanted to add an order for such to sweeten any deal .

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Caribbean »

Did I read that correctly - EUR 3b for three frigates and three years support? That's T26 territory
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Jensy
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Jensy »

Caribbean wrote:Did I read that correctly - EUR 3b for three frigates and three years support? That's T26 territory
Indeed and without the local build that was (according to most of the other bidders) seen as being an integral part of the deal....
Timmymagic wrote:
serge750 wrote:I would gift them to Greece in the interest of NATO co-operation & maybe a interest in the Tempest end product in the far future ....or more 2nd hand Tiffies when they get replaced - & the french reaction would be a bonus but i agree the french would put loads of pressure on the possible transfer
Unless the Greeks coming bearing cold hard cash, and a lot of it at that, we should do no such thing. The T1 aircraft have a lot of value in terms of spares for the UK's remaining T2 and T3 aircraft...we also have decent relations with Turkey (even with the loathsome Erdogan in charge). Unless the Greeks would be willing to pay substantially more than their parts value we should avoid like the plague.
Of the 53 Tranche 1 Typhoons, I'm guessing we've already cannibalised a far amount of the retired aircraft, particularly the two-seaters that got binned first?

Ideally, if the Greeks could slide us north of €1bn for our remaining T1s, we could utilise the proceeds of any sale to build a couple of dozen new Typhoons, and push the unordered Lightnings to the late 20s/early 30s, before Tempest enters production, to fund the rest of the bill. Keeps the skills base at Warton for a few more years and retains the opportunity for exporting completed aircraft.

Interesting to think that Greece was fairly set on Eurofighter 20 years ago and looking to join the programme and procure 60-90 jets, likely from the German line. An interim F-16 purchase and the global financial crisis killed off the idea, with the recent Rafale sale presumably burying it.

Regarding the geopolitical angle, the announcement of the Fort (I) Class being sold to Egypt suggests the UK is taking a somewhat agnostic approach to the Eastern Med's deteriorating situation. At least as far as defence sales go. See also the failed T31 bid for the Hellenic Navy.

Although highly unlikely, it's curious to think that two air forces (+Qatar) might operate both children of the Future European Fighter Aircraft project side by side....

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Jensy wrote: push the unordered Lightnings to the late 20s/early 30s, before Tempest enters production, to fund the rest of the bill. Keeps the skills base at Warton for a few more years and retains the opportunity for exporting completed aircraft.
All tricks in the bag should be considered to this end, in the light of a sizeable cut to the funds allocated to Tempest
... or is it that the co-operation on the engine side, with Japan, has brought more resources into the fold and the seeming cut is just a mirror image of that?
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Ron5 »

ArmChairCivvy wrote:in the light of a sizeable cut to the funds allocated to Tempest
I missed this. How much was cut?

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Ron5 wrote:
ArmChairCivvy wrote:in the light of a sizeable cut to the funds allocated to Tempest
I missed this. How much was cut?
Headline level:
"The UK government's Infrastructure and Projects Authority (IPA) has revealed in its annual report published on 15 July a GBP450 million (USD612 million) cut in the budget to build the Tempest Future Combat Air System."

However, there are overlaps with other programs (UK defence cloud: CIRRUS and also co-operation outside the signed up (3) members to the Tempest prgrm) so I am not sure whether the cut is real, or just a matter of rearranging what monies are accounted for 'where'.
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by SD67 »

Jensy wrote:
Caribbean wrote:Did I read that correctly - EUR 3b for three frigates and three years support? That's T26 territory
Indeed and without the local build that was (according to most of the other bidders) seen as being an integral part of the deal....
Timmymagic wrote:
serge750 wrote:I would gift them to Greece in the interest of NATO co-operation & maybe a interest in the Tempest end product in the far future ....or more 2nd hand Tiffies when they get replaced - & the french reaction would be a bonus but i agree the french would put loads of pressure on the possible transfer
Unless the Greeks coming bearing cold hard cash, and a lot of it at that, we should do no such thing. The T1 aircraft have a lot of value in terms of spares for the UK's remaining T2 and T3 aircraft...we also have decent relations with Turkey (even with the loathsome Erdogan in charge). Unless the Greeks would be willing to pay substantially more than their parts value we should avoid like the plague.
Of the 53 Tranche 1 Typhoons, I'm guessing we've already cannibalised a far amount of the retired aircraft, particularly the two-seaters that got binned first?

Ideally, if the Greeks could slide us north of €1bn for our remaining T1s, we could utilise the proceeds of any sale to build a couple of dozen new Typhoons, and push the unordered Lightnings to the late 20s/early 30s, before Tempest enters production, to fund the rest of the bill. Keeps the skills base at Warton for a few more years and retains the opportunity for exporting completed aircraft.

Interesting to think that Greece was fairly set on Eurofighter 20 years ago and looking to join the programme and procure 60-90 jets, likely from the German line. An interim F-16 purchase and the global financial crisis killed off the idea, with the recent Rafale sale presumably burying it.

Regarding the geopolitical angle, the announcement of the Fort (I) Class being sold to Egypt suggests the UK is taking a somewhat agnostic approach to the Eastern Med's deteriorating situation. At least as far as defence sales go. See also the failed T31 bid for the Hellenic Navy.

Although highly unlikely, it's curious to think that two air forces (+Qatar) might operate both children of the Future European Fighter Aircraft project side by side....
I don't think the EU would allow it even if the Greeks had the money. France alone is owed something north of 40billion, that's some serious leverage. It may not be a bad thing to leave the eastern med to others, in fact it's likely inevitable consequence of the whole "IndoPacific tilt"

There's been some chatter that Bangladesh may be a potential customer (!).Don't laugh - a booming economy and proximity to China, ex-Soviet jets that need replacing.

https://www.dhakatribune.com/bangladesh ... -the-skies

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

One can read a lot into v.0 (it's in the name)
whereas the divergence between 1 & 2 will have long-term consequences for Europe's DEFENCE INDUSTRY
- oh well, have said it before (and might be wrong :D )
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by SW1 »

https://www.raf.mod.uk/news/articles/ra ... -hebrides/

The next few days will test our ability with the minimum footprint of people and kit to receive, debrief, re-arm, refuel and rebrief a Combat Air capability. In short bursts of activity, we will use an A400M to bring in kit and also directly refuel our in-situ fuel bowser to support the Typhoon – an activity delivered by 1 Expeditionary Logistics Squadron from RAF Wittering. At the same time, 6 Squadron engineers will service and simulate re-arming the aircraft while the crews take advantage of our deployed comms capability to debrief and rebrief prior to re-launching.

The Exercise is designed to test a fundamental question: what is the minimum footprint of people and kit and processes required to successfully deploy and sustain aircraft to a temporary location at short notice.

The RAF have chosen to use Stornoway as a location due to its relative remoteness, which in turn has forced the deploying elements to consider Air transportable options; this removes the easy solutions that simply deploying from known main operating bases provide. Although currently local to the UK and utilising RAF assets, Agile Combat Exercises will grow to support United States Air Forces in Europe Force Elements and those of NATO and Joint Expeditionary Force partners.

Lord Jim
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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by Lord Jim »

The RAF has been doing this sort of thing for years, the Jaguars, due to the role often deployed on exercise in an austere fashion.

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

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Re: Eurofighter Typhoon (RAF)

Post by SD67 »

Translation - Germany won't have a budget for a replacement anytime soon. Green Foreign Minister=, enough said.

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