Read More: http://aviationweek.com/shownews/scorpi ... aining-bidA consortium of QinetiQ and Thales have chosen Textron Airland’s Scorpion light attack aircraft as the platform for its bid into a major U.K. live flying training program.
The companies want to offer the Scorpion the UK defense ministry’s Air Support to Defense Operational Training (ASDOT) program.
Military Flying Training
- The Armchair Soldier
- Site Admin
- Posts: 1755
- Joined: 29 Apr 2015, 08:31
- Contact:
Re: Military Flying Training
Scorpion Selected for Potential U.K. Training Bid
-
- Member
- Posts: 780
- Joined: 03 May 2015, 16:19
Re: Military Flying Training
Yes indeed interesting. I have liked the Scorpion since it was unveiled, and I hope that with its low running costs other uses for it might be found.
-
- Senior Member
- Posts: 4640
- Joined: 01 May 2015, 10:22
-
- Retired Site Admin
- Posts: 2657
- Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 18:10
Re: Military Flying Training
..........
Admin Note: This user is banned after turning most of their old posts into spam. This is why you may see their posts containing nothing more than dots or symbols. We have decided to keep these posts in place as it shows where they once were and why other users may be replying to things no longer visible in the topic. We apologise for any inconvenience.
Re: Military Flying Training
Contractor owned probably yes.arfah wrote:Private finance,RS. Probably..?
New cabs, much more modern everything, greater serviceability, cheaper operating costs - certainly compared to a Falcon, dunno about a legacy Hawk - depending on the deal with the contractor.
And there's the internal reconfigurable mission bay that could potentially handle all manner of electronic threat simulators.
-
- Senior Member
- Posts: 4640
- Joined: 01 May 2015, 10:22
- whitelancer
- Member
- Posts: 619
- Joined: 05 May 2015, 22:19
Re: Military Flying Training
Flight Refuelling is now part of Cobham.marktigger wrote:is flight refueling still opperating the Falcon fleet
Saw one taking off this morning from Hurn, so looks like it.
Re: Military Flying Training
The Scorpion thing is not a done deal, other companies are in the bidding process.
Re: Military Flying Training
...........
Admin Note: This user is banned after turning most of their old posts into spam. This is why you may see their posts containing nothing more than dots or symbols. We have decided to keep these posts in place as it shows where they once were and why other users may be replying to things no longer visible in the topic. We apologise for any inconvenience.
Re: Military Flying Training
I'm just not sure about what the Scorpion would actually be good for. It is not a bargain for Red Air from a speed and agility point of view, and as a replacement for the Falcon 20 it might have trouble due to only having 2 men on board, when the Falcon tipically has at least 3.
You might also know me as Liger30, from that great forum than MP.net was.
Arma Pacis Fulcra.
Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum
Arma Pacis Fulcra.
Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum
- cockneyjock1974
- Member
- Posts: 537
- Joined: 01 May 2015, 09:43
Re: Military Flying Training
I suspect the RAF are trying to get "light" ground attack through the back door. If so good for them £3000 per flight hour nice!!!!!
-
- Retired Site Admin
- Posts: 2657
- Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 18:10
Re: Military Flying Training
That was my thought. A small fleet of Scorpion's for the cases when they're capable (such as against ISIS) but can flow back into training roles when not needed.
Chances of this though? Almost nuthin!
Chances of this though? Almost nuthin!
Re: Military Flying Training
I think the RAF would fight tooth and nail against Scorpion light ground attack - in the same way the RN did against Type 31!cockneyjock1974 wrote:I suspect the RAF are trying to get "light" ground attack through the back door. If so good for them £3000 per flight hour nice!!!!!
Scorpion would have been ideal for Afghanistan, and current anti-Daesh ops in Iraq where there's absolutely no threat from enemy air. But the rub is that it would not be "as well as" but "instead of" and are the RAF going to give up a squadron of Typhoon to get Scorpion?
Then there's the integration of UK weapons, which seems to be a blocker for so much.
We need a different thread for this.
Re: Military Flying Training
.............
Admin Note: This user is banned after turning most of their old posts into spam. This is why you may see their posts containing nothing more than dots or symbols. We have decided to keep these posts in place as it shows where they once were and why other users may be replying to things no longer visible in the topic. We apologise for any inconvenience.
Re: Military Flying Training
I'm probably going to look hugely stupid for asking this, but why can't that be done with the Hawks? What apart from money prevents the RAF from upgrading some of them to take on a light attack role?RetroSicotte wrote:That was my thought. A small fleet of Scorpion's for the cases when they're capable (such as against ISIS) but can flow back into training roles when not needed.
Chances of this though? Almost nuthin!
Re: Military Flying Training
The existing Hawk Trainers are getting old or life expired. Its possible to build new ones as they still do. In fact some of the Hawk models sold abroad had a light attack role.Pseudo wrote:I'm probably going to look hugely stupid for asking this, but why can't that be done with the Hawks? What apart from money prevents the RAF from upgrading some of them to take on a light attack role?
Re: Military Flying Training
... and I guess we are back onto military flying training now.Pseudo wrote:I'm probably going to look hugely stupid for asking this, but why can't that be done with the Hawks? What apart from money prevents the RAF from upgrading some of them to take on a light attack role?
The Hawk, of any description in UK service, totally lacks any of the things that make a modern combat aircraft. To start with:
> secure networked comms
> sensors - EO, radar, targeting pods
> weapons integration - getting Brimstone, PW IV etc to work would cost an absolute fortune and the procurement of the sensors listed above
> self protection - no DAS or radar warning receivers
> AAR
And there are no crew for the combat role, and how would new pilots be trained while the Hawks were off bombing stuff?
When the Hawk was brand new the RAF was still dropping dumb bombs and firing SNEBs. That ceased decades ago and so did the vague possibility of any cross-over use of the Hawk in an attack role.
Re: Military Flying Training
I knew I'd look stupid asking.RichardIC wrote:... and I guess we are back onto military flying training now.Pseudo wrote:I'm probably going to look hugely stupid for asking this, but why can't that be done with the Hawks? What apart from money prevents the RAF from upgrading some of them to take on a light attack role?
The Hawk, of any description in UK service, totally lacks any of the things that make a modern combat aircraft. To start with:
- secure networked comms
- sensors - EO, radar, targeting pods
- weapons integration - getting Brimstone, PW IV etc to work would cost an absolute fortune and the procurement of the sensors listed above
- self protection - no DAS or radar warning receivers
- AAR
And there are no crew for the combat role, and how would new pilots be trained while the Hawks were off bombing stuff?
When the Hawk was brand new the RAF was still dropping dumb bombs and firing SNEBS. That ceased decades ago and so did the vague possibility of any cross-over use of the Hawk in an attack role.
-
- Senior Member
- Posts: 4640
- Joined: 01 May 2015, 10:22
Re: Military Flying Training
Legacy Hawk in the training roles its being used for is fine with normal weapons delivery much more is done in the simulator. The Falcon carries a series of Podded systems for a number of agencies and generated threats with one of the hawks roles to simulate missile attack. Its also used for Dissimilar air combat training. There are a number of other aircraft that provide this in Europe including Hunters and A4 Skyhawks so al long as the Legacy hawks can be kept flying they are still viable. Possibly modernise their systems like Glass cockpits and modern comms. However I suspect we shall see Hawks being some of the last jets going onto the warbird circuit.
Re: Military Flying Training
With regards to the Scorpion Trainer the USAF in a milestone event are going to give it the once over, perhaps giving it certification. This will be a major boost to any future sales including to the UK.
http://www.defensenews.com/story/defens ... /87382706/
http://www.defensenews.com/story/defens ... /87382706/
Re: Military Flying Training
...........
Admin Note: This user is banned after turning most of their old posts into spam. This is why you may see their posts containing nothing more than dots or symbols. We have decided to keep these posts in place as it shows where they once were and why other users may be replying to things no longer visible in the topic. We apologise for any inconvenience.
Re: Military Flying Training
Is 60(R) Sqn moving to Valley, or disbanding in favor of a new standard for the occasion...?
Also, where does the new contract leave the Operational Training Phase (OTP) for the Army Air Corps, currently on Squirrels at Middle Wallop?
Does the article say anything about that...?
Also, where does the new contract leave the Operational Training Phase (OTP) for the Army Air Corps, currently on Squirrels at Middle Wallop?
Does the article say anything about that...?
You might also know me as Liger30, from that great forum than MP.net was.
Arma Pacis Fulcra.
Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum
Arma Pacis Fulcra.
Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum