Indian Armed Forces

[2HeadsBetter]

A couple of Indian bloggers are saying the buy is split 28 single seaters, 8 twin. Can't find any official confirmation.

[dmereifield]

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articl ... hters.html

Will they go with the Gripen or the F16? Or perhaps even the F35?

[dmereifield]

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articl ... embly.html

Looks like they want at least 200(!) single seaters (possibly rising to up to 300)....so thats the Typhoon out of the running, and given the requirement to build in India, and the high numbers (and anticipated cost of $13-15 billion), presumably the F35 isn't looking too good either?

[andrew98]

More trouble than they're worth, will want full tech transfer and the designer to accept full responsibility for build even though India will want to build themselves.

[Dahedd]

Single engined. So that's F16, Gripen or one of the new supersonic trainers being touted to the USAF (such as Boeing's new T-X) or are they trying to land a seat at the F35 table ?

[ArmChairCivvy]

These single-engined fighters, only starting to come through upgrades, will also need replacing as attrition due to age/ flight hours is manifesting itself ; not as badly as with the Mig21bis fleet (they simply started dropping off the skies):

"Flight Fleets Analyzer shows that India is the sole remaining operator of the Jaguar, with 160 in service. Reports from India claim that around 120 of the aircraft will receive the Darin-III upgrade.

The Jaguars are used in ground and maritime attack roles, and the upgraded types are set to receive MBDA's ASRAAM short-range air-to-air missile and Textron Defence Systems' CBU-105 Sensor Fused Weapon."
- buying the Omani airframes was a sensible move as such expensive upgrade prgrms would not make sense applied to limited numbers

[The Armchair Soldier]

INS Betwa, Navy's guided missile frigate, tips over in Mumbai dockyard

Guided missile frigate INS Betwa slipped on the dock blocks while undocking at the Naval Dockyard in Mumbai today , an official said.

The incident occurred around 1.50 pm when the ship was undergoing a refit at the dry dockyards here.

The extent of damage to the 3,800 tonne Brahmaputra-Class frigate, commissioned into the Indian Navy in July 2004, is being assessed.
Two sailors are missing while 14 have been rescued with minor injuries. The 3,850-ton ship is now lying on its side on the dry dock at the naval dockyard.

Read More: http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/ins- ... 27278.html

[The Armchair Soldier]

Navy says no to Tejas variant

The indigenously developed Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas does not meet requirements, Navy Chief Admiral Sunil Lanba said here on Friday. This effectively means the end of the road for the fighter’s Naval variant as the service is looking at the global market for its needs.

The Naval LCA made its maiden flight in April 2012 and two prototypes are currently undergoing flying as part of the development.

“The present LCA Navy does not meet the carrier capability which is required by the Navy. We will continue to support the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) and Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) in their efforts to develop a carrier-based fighter aircraft. At the same time we will seek aircraft elsewhere which can operate on the aircraft carrier,” Admiral Lanba told the media.

Read More: http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/N ... 751699.ece

[Frenchie]

It's interesting but I don't have any information from French media, so I can not say if it's serious or not.

http://www.indiastrategic.in/2016/12/15 ... ins-again/

[ArmChairCivvy]

This is what IAF says
"The reduction in the [Rafale] deal has left the air force well below the capability its chiefs say is needed as its current fleet of MiG 21s reaches the end of its life. The Rafale deal will take the force from 33 squadrons (of between 16 and 18 aircraft) to 35, but senior officers say it needs another 10 squadrons,..."["]

That makes it 200.

This is what they brief to the press: [from the link above]

"Twenty IAF squadrons will need about 400 aircraft, and that is literally the need of the hour.

An IAF fighter squadron, or Unit Establishment, generally has 18 aircraft for combat missions, and at least three more are require for Maintenance Reserve and Strike off Wastage (MRSOW)."
... shake the tree; something will fall down from there

No doubt the Navy will get their 60 as the 3 carrier strategy has been in place for a long time .

[dmereifield]

Does anyone care to guess who which aircraft they will select?

[Frenchie]

Thank you for these precisions ACC

[Defiance]

Following the Navy's rejection of the LCA a formal RFI for naval combat aircraft has been issued

http://www.janes.com/article/67252/indi ... -tejas-lca

Information requested includes whether the aircraft is single- or twin-seat (or available as both), and if it has one or two engines; whether it can perform Short Take-off But Arrested Recovery (STOBAR) or Catapult Take-off But Arrested Recovery (CATOBAR) operations (or both); whether the aircraft is already in operational use or not; whether helmet-mounted displays and large-area displays are integrated and fitted; is auto-landing an option; and whether or not an active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar is fitted.

As much as Rafale is a clear option here, the Gripen must also be a compelling choice, it's closer to what the LCA was meant to be in capability and probably sustainment and is currently scrapping with LM for a ~90 aircraft order for their air force. Suppose it depends how substantial Brazil now is in terms of IP ownership and if it's now become trilateral than bilateral.

[ArmChairCivvy]

whether [helmet-mounted displays and] large-area displays are integrated and fitted;

As for Brazil, the large display mentioned will make its first appearance in their planes; otherwise (I think) the differences are only in weapons fit.

As for India, they built a sub-size carrier on the back of Tejas (and Tejas2 was conceived only for this reason) and are now stuck with STOBAR, even though bigger carriers are in the works... so they are desperately trying to find a plane for both, rather than being stuck with split a/c fleets over the next 40 years.

[ArmChairCivvy]

they are desperately trying to find a plane for both, rather than being stuck with split a/c fleets over the next 40 years.

Just noticed that Janes has a different take on inter-operability aspects:
"The air force has already selected the French aircraft, but in a country where interoperability does not count for much, there is no indication that the navy will necessarily do the same"
- if the IAF could not afford more than what is needed to keep their a/c delivered nukes current, hardly 60 more are on the cards for the Navy (nurturing its STOBAR inheritance)

[xav]

Russia & India Working to Increase BrahMos Supersonic Anti-Ship Missile Range

Russia’s Machine-Building Scientific and Production Association is planning to boost the range of the BrahMos cruise missile jointly produced with India, Company CEO and General Designer Alexander Leonov said.
"There will be a noticeable increase in the missile’s range, not by several times but noticeable," he said.

The company has already started the research stage to increase the cruise missile’s range.

http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.ph ... range.html

[Defiance]

Door decisively shut on BAE's Advanced Hawk from India

http://www.defensenews.com/articles/ind ... k-aircraft

Appears they don't want to do business with Rolls due to previous allogations of bribery in previous batches of Hawk 132's

[ArmChairCivvy]

" "The Advanced Hawk has been in the work for two years under a unique model with Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) and BAE Systems pooling resources to develop a faster, more agile Hawk that can also carry smart weapons," said Dave Corfield, BAE Systems head of Hawk India.

HAL has built avionics, a multifunction display system and wings for the Advanced Hawk aircraft, Corefield added. "

A new version of Russian roulette: both parties shoot themselves in the head

[whitelancer]

Am I missing something? Isn't the Adour the only engine fitted to the Hawk, where would they come from if not Rolls Royce?

[ArmChairCivvy]

The way I read it is that they say "thx" for all that tech transfer, but
- we won't buy the end product
- nor the base product (anymore)

[bobp]

As for greasing of fingers, it goes on all the time in certain countries. Then someone gets greedy and everything collapses. Meanwhile what is India going to do with all its Hawk trainers already in service fitted with Rolls engines. And will BAe pull out of its production facility in India?

[RichardIC]

The article appears to say that they won't procure any Advanced Hawk, not that they won't support those they already have or are committed to.

BAE doesn't have a production facility in India.

[ArmChairCivvy]

committed to.

Rumour has it that these planes

became collateral damage (RR engines)

[RichardIC]

My vague recollection is that there was a list of companies that India could not realistically avoid severing all business links with as it would make existing equipment unsustainable - RR fell into that category, with Jaguar, Hawk etc. However they would avoid doing new business.

[ArmChairCivvy]

I would not expect Aviationweek to be too much behind the curve
http://aviationweek.com/defense/bae-adv ... 649cbf1958
so may be there is much smoke (without a fire), and
it is all about getting the best price for a package of 32+48?

"BAE Systems is looking beyond current negotiations with India over 30-32 additional Hawk trainers, seeing prospects for at least 48 further units based on the new Advanced Hawk design. Indian state manufacturer Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. (HAL) has helped develop this version, which BAE presented at the Aero India exhibition held in Bengaluru in February. Before the Advanced Hawk is ordered, however, talks now underway should lead to HAL resuming licensed Hawk manufacturing..."