Dreadnought Class SSBN

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Cooper
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Re: Dreadnought Class SSBN

Post by Cooper »

I wonder how the RN comes to a figure for the number of separate Female crew berths?

Do they expect an upper limit on the percentage of crew that will be female, you can't leave bunk space empty in anticipation of that figure being lower or higher and if the male & female berthing's are practically on top of each other anyway, what's the point. :?: :?: :?:

Tinplate Turleigh
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Re: Dreadnought Class SSBN

Post by Tinplate Turleigh »

I think the whole point is that they shouldn't be on top of each other!! :

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Re: Dreadnought Class SSBN

Post by Phil Sayers »

According to this Guardian article the UK's nuclear warhead stockpile is set to increase, or have the potential to increase, in size:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... e-cold-war

I wonder whether there are also plans to increase the number of tubes to sixteen.

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Re: Dreadnought Class SSBN

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" We will not comment on speculation about the integrated review, which will be published on Tuesday.”

The subject matter (of the new warheads) relates to the 40s
- unfortunately the lead time is about 20 years
... taking the calculator out :)

The project plan and the critical path both look quite different, depending on whether the US is also working on it (they have the Triad) or we go it alone (we only have the Trident... which is an unfortunate misnomer as it is actually the missile. And the decision , for the 40s onward, is: with what to fill the tubes on the boats).
- a different missile?
- with a different warhead?
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
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Lord Jim
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Re: Dreadnought Class SSBN

Post by Lord Jim »

Probable answer would be same new missile as the USN but retain UK designed warheads. It maybe the case the new missile uses the same bus as the Trident to save casts for the USN, who knows.

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Re: Dreadnought Class SSBN

Post by jonas »

written answers 15th March 2021. Trident Warhead.

https://questions-statements.parliament ... -10/166353

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Cooper
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Re: Dreadnought Class SSBN

Post by Cooper »

Telegraph Article on the Dreadnought build.
Image

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Dreadnought Class SSBN

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Dark humour in that article:

"it's obvious why Astute ran aground"
Yes - penny pinching; old Admiralty charts in use.

If the old boats can be retired at 37 (+?) years age when the Successors come in, then
... perhaps it is pound-stretching; will not allow for any delay in the change over, though
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Re: Dreadnought Class SSBN

Post by xav »

Top stuff (as usual) by H I Sutton. This time about Dreadnought Class SSBN:
Image
First Submarine To Use New Stealth Technology
The Royal Navy’s new Dreadnought Class submarine promises to be the stealthiest yet. The first two boats, HMS Dreadnought and HMS Valiant, are already under construction. They are destined to take over Britain’s nuclear deterrent from the 2030s. They incorporate significant changes in the design compared to other types.
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... echnology/

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Re: Dreadnought Class SSBN

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A bit of cut and paste and bingo, Astute follow on ;)

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Re: Dreadnought Class SSBN

Post by inch »

Think the UK can hold its own on sub tech/ ideas by the sounds of it, on a level with peers at the top only a few countries could match , Australia would get a cracker of a sub either us or uk tech

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Re: Dreadnought Class SSBN

Post by jonas »

Report on UK future nuclear deterrent :-

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... parliament

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Re: Dreadnought Class SSBN

Post by abc123 »

Ron5 wrote: 03 Nov 2021, 18:26 A bit of cut and paste and bingo, Astute follow on ;)
Yep, they leave 2 rows of silos for VLS and that's it.
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What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…

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Re: Dreadnought Class SSBN

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Re: Dreadnought Class SSBN

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Re: Dreadnought Class SSBN

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Re: Dreadnought Class SSBN

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xav wrote: 03 Nov 2021, 09:38 Top stuff (as usual) by H I Sutton. This time about Dreadnought Class SSBN:
Image
First Submarine To Use New Stealth Technology
The Royal Navy’s new Dreadnought Class submarine promises to be the stealthiest yet. The first two boats, HMS Dreadnought and HMS Valiant, are already under construction. They are destined to take over Britain’s nuclear deterrent from the 2030s. They incorporate significant changes in the design compared to other types.
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... echnology/
Noticeable that the TKMS Type 212CD E proposal for the Dutch contact uses the same full length chine hull shape as Dreadnought to reduce/reflect the active/passive sonar echo return strength, TKMS call it the diamond shape

3:00

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Re: Dreadnought Class SSBN

Post by SKB »


Steel was cut for Dreadnought in October 2016 and Valiant in September 2019. King George VI has yet to start.
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Re: Dreadnought Class SSBN

Post by tomuk »

SKB wrote: 10 Feb 2023, 12:39
Steel was cut for Dreadnought in October 2016 and Valiant in September 2019. King George VI has yet to start.
Better get a move on with SSN(R) we don't want the production line slowing down.
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Re: Dreadnought Class SSBN

Post by Scimitar54 »

We want the largest number of them that we can, plus we have a need to “top up” Astute class numbers in the near term. :mrgreen:

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Re: Dreadnought Class SSBN

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Scimitar54 wrote: 12 Feb 2023, 00:06 We want the largest number of them that we can, plus we have a need to “top up” Astute class numbers in the near term. :mrgreen:
Would agree on increasing Astute - with the recent going's on with Russia/Ukraine - things will become hotter for the UK being a senior leader in helping Ukraine - so Ships, Subs and fast jets would be of priority in the near term as they affect our "shores" so much more.

I dont see the Red Army getting a foothold on the British mainland anytime soon - so the tanks while important - are secondary. That is an area that mainland Europe must focus on given their proximity issues(here is looking at you Germany).
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Re: Dreadnought Class SSBN

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TheLoneRanger wrote: 12 Feb 2023, 09:48
Scimitar54 wrote: 12 Feb 2023, 00:06 We want the largest number of them that we can, plus we have a need to “top up” Astute class numbers in the near term. :mrgreen:
Would agree on increasing Astute - with the recent going's on with Russia/Ukraine - things will become hotter for the UK being a senior leader in helping Ukraine - so Ships, Subs and fast jets would be of priority in the near term as they affect our "shores" so much more.

I dont see the Red Army getting a foothold on the British mainland anytime soon - so the tanks while important - are secondary. That is an area that mainland Europe must focus on given their proximity issues(here is looking at you Germany).
It would be great to build another 5 Astues, unfortunately, we all know it's not going to happen.

They have moved onto the new reactor design for Dreadnought now for starters.

They do need to work out the dynamic of the Australian, US, UK deal on their SSN, align it with RN SSNR and get on with it.

In an ideal world Barrow needs to be cutting the first steel for SSNR boat one as soon as Dreadnought boat 4 is under construction.

Both projects need to be in lockstep with each other, funded and cracked on with. Real progress needs to made on design and workshare over the next two years or it's hard to see how they can remain in alignment.

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Re: Dreadnought Class SSBN

Post by wargame_insomniac »

mrclark303 wrote: 12 Feb 2023, 12:17
TheLoneRanger wrote: 12 Feb 2023, 09:48
Scimitar54 wrote: 12 Feb 2023, 00:06 We want the largest number of them that we can, plus we have a need to “top up” Astute class numbers in the near term. :mrgreen:
Would agree on increasing Astute - with the recent going's on with Russia/Ukraine - things will become hotter for the UK being a senior leader in helping Ukraine - so Ships, Subs and fast jets would be of priority in the near term as they affect our "shores" so much more.

I dont see the Red Army getting a foothold on the British mainland anytime soon - so the tanks while important - are secondary. That is an area that mainland Europe must focus on given their proximity issues(here is looking at you Germany).
It would be great to build another 5 Astues, unfortunately, we all know it's not going to happen.

They have moved onto the new reactor design for Dreadnought now for starters.

They do need to work out the dynamic of the Australian, US, UK deal on their SSN, align it with RN SSNR and get on with it.

In an ideal world Barrow needs to be cutting the first steel for SSNR boat one as soon as Dreadnought boat 4 is under construction.

Both projects need to be in lockstep with each other, funded and cracked on with. Real progress needs to made on design and workshare over the next two years or it's hard to see how they can remain in alignment.
Its beeen roughly every 3 years for previous Dreadniught SSBN's to have first steel cut, so guessing we are looking at 2026 for KGVI to have steel cut.

Hopefully SSNR could be built on a two year drumbeat, as we definitely need more than 7 SSN.
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Re: Dreadnought Class SSBN

Post by serge750 »

If the SSNR design is not ready to go by 2026 could they offer to build one last Astute for the Oz navy at cost for training to keep the workers busy until the design is finalised ?

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Re: Dreadnought Class SSBN

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wargame_insomniac wrote: 12 Feb 2023, 15:29
mrclark303 wrote: 12 Feb 2023, 12:17
TheLoneRanger wrote: 12 Feb 2023, 09:48
Scimitar54 wrote: 12 Feb 2023, 00:06 We want the largest number of them that we can, plus we have a need to “top up” Astute class numbers in the near term. :mrgreen:
Would agree on increasing Astute - with the recent going's on with Russia/Ukraine - things will become hotter for the UK being a senior leader in helping Ukraine - so Ships, Subs and fast jets would be of priority in the near term as they affect our "shores" so much more.

I dont see the Red Army getting a foothold on the British mainland anytime soon - so the tanks while important - are secondary. That is an area that mainland Europe must focus on given their proximity issues(here is looking at you Germany).
It would be great to build another 5 Astues, unfortunately, we all know it's not going to happen.

They have moved onto the new reactor design for Dreadnought now for starters.

They do need to work out the dynamic of the Australian, US, UK deal on their SSN, align it with RN SSNR and get on with it.

In an ideal world Barrow needs to be cutting the first steel for SSNR boat one as soon as Dreadnought boat 4 is under construction.

Both projects need to be in lockstep with each other, funded and cracked on with. Real progress needs to made on design and workshare over the next two years or it's hard to see how they can remain in alignment.
Its beeen roughly every 3 years for previous Dreadniught SSBN's to have first steel cut, so guessing we are looking at 2026 for KGVI to have steel cut.

Hopefully SSNR could be built on a two year drumbeat, as we definitely need more than 7 SSN.
We certainly do, I would hope the early Astutes can be effectively refueled and refitted/ updated, allowing SSNR to supplement the SSN fleet and steadily build the force back to 12 boats.

But that would require a serious effort to have a finalised SSNR digital design ready to start cutting steel in a couple of years.

I wonder if they will try to use dreadnought with the missile module swapped out with a short mission module, bringing it's displacement down to 9,500 tons 'ish'.

If it's actually viable to use an SSBN as the basis of an SSN ?

SSNR boat 6 would be the replacement for HMS Astute.

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