The Mk 45 5" gun to be fitted to the Type 26's can fire Vulcano ammunition.
Sigh.
Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]
Posted: 09 Jun 2021, 18:09
by NickC
NickC wrote:In their FY2022 budget USN has cancelled all future funding for the development of the Gun Launched Guided Projectile, formally the High Velocity Projectile, it had been envisaged a 5" variant would be developed for the USN BAE Inc MK45 5"/62 main gun as fitted to the T26 with is new automated magazine. MK45 fires the standard US 70 lb 5" shell to ~ max 13nm range.
Remember discussion at time if the Italian OTO Melara 127/64 would have been the better buy (the Canadians choice for the CSC) with its Ammunition Handling System (AAHS), which can fire the Vulcano 127mm shells, both in the Guided Long Range (GLR) and the Ballistic Extended Range (BER) versions.
Long range shells expensive and involve trade off in high explosive content for weight of rocket motor and electronics but expect useful option to have on occasions, as always targeting BVLOS problematic.
Ron5 wrote:The Mk 45 5" gun to be fitted to the Type 26's can fire Vulcano ammunition.
Sigh.
Very surprised as did not know BAE Inc and OTO Melara had funded the necessary trials to prove it can meet all the technical requirements to fire the Vulcano rounds safely from the Mk45 with necessary USN approval, remember it was proposed to USN by BAE Inc, but USN was not interested.
Is this shell capable of being used successfully against ballistic missiles
Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]
Posted: 10 Jun 2021, 04:04
by Meriv9
NickC wrote:In their FY2022 budget USN has cancelled all future funding for the development of the Gun Launched Guided Projectile, formally the High Velocity Projectile, it had been envisaged a 5" variant would be developed for the USN BAE Inc MK45 5"/62 main gun as fitted to the T26 with is new automated magazine. MK45 fires the standard US 70 lb 5" shell to ~ max 13nm range.
Remember discussion at time if the Italian OTO Melara 127/64 would have been the better buy (the Canadians choice for the CSC) with its Ammunition Handling System (AAHS), which can fire the Vulcano 127mm shells, both in the Guided Long Range (GLR) and the Ballistic Extended Range (BER) versions.
Long range shells expensive and involve trade off in high explosive content for weight of rocket motor and electronics but expect useful option to have on occasions, as always targeting BVLOS problematic.
Vulcano is a undercaliber so yes loose of payload delivery but not rocket assisted as the american rounds (Excalibur if im not wrong)
Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]
Posted: 10 Jun 2021, 04:07
by Meriv9
seaspear wrote:Is this shell capable of being used successfully against ballistic missiles
Vulcano isnt AA.
The AA round from Oto is the Dart, here you can see it in action (5km range)
The problem is that Vulcano is 127mm
Dart that is the guided AA round is 76mm.
Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]
Posted: 10 Jun 2021, 06:45
by Lord Jim
Doesn't really matter as the use of the T-26 for NGFS would be risking a very valuable ship in territory where it could be threatens by almost any nation these days with the proliferation a capable AShMs. The future will be missiles and ordinance delivered by unmanned platforms even if the traditional Navy may choke on the thought. Mobile Shore based AShMs are far cheaper than the modern warships they can threaten, damage or even sink and the Royal Navy cannot afford to have a single first line warship even disabled in a future conflict without serious repercussions.
Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]
Posted: 10 Jun 2021, 13:29
by Ron5
Not Oto Melera at the time of the Vulcano trials either. Bae signed the contract with Leonardo.
Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]
Posted: 11 Jun 2021, 11:00
by NickC
OTO Melara was/is a subsidiary of Finmeccanica/Leonardo, Finmeccanica was rebranded as Leonardo Jan 2017, its a very large Italian multi-national company 30% owned by the Italian state, Finmeccanica acquired OTO Melara 1992 along with Agusta helicopters and other Italian state companies. Leonardo has acquired UK defence companies including Ferranti & Westlands
One piece of good news. The in-service date for HMS Glasgow has now been revised forward by 12 months and is expected in 2026.
Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]
Posted: 24 Jun 2021, 15:56
by donald_of_tokyo
RichardIC wrote:One piece of good news. The in-service date for HMS Glasgow has now been revised forward by 12 months and is expected in 2026.
Great info.
2.11 Delaying the entry into service of new capabilities can mean the Department has to maintain equipment that is ageing, and in some cases becoming obsolete. For example, ... In addition, delays in the preliminary stages of the Type 26 frigate, and an acceptance of a more realistic timetable for the Type 31e Frigate as part of the competition process, mean that the first ships of each class are forecast to start to enter service in 2026 and 2027 respectively. This requires the predecessor Type 23 to undergo upgrade work to stay in service until the new ships are available.
So this part is discussion about delay.
I do not think this means HMS Glasgow timeline has revised forward. From the begging, she was planned to be "delivered to RN" on late 2025 or 2026. After that, she will start RN-side "first of class ship" verification. I understand the document means "delivery" by saying "in service", and be operational on 2027 (or 2028?).
If this is true, the first T31 will be "delivered" to RN on 2027, then start RN-side "first of class ship" verification and will be "operational" on 2028 or later. Slow down by two years, as the first T31 was originally planned to be "delivered" on 2025.
But, actually I think this is much more realistic schedule.
Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]
Posted: 24 Jun 2021, 16:08
by RichardIC
donald_of_tokyo wrote:I do not think this means HMS Glasgow timeline has revised forward.
Yes it has.
Programme Delays (months)
Type 26 frigate (ship one) -12 (that's minus 12 months delay)
2 The Type 26 programme team reported in March 2021 that it forecasts achieving the in-service date for ship one
12 months sooner than forecast at the time of going on contract
Adding the flight team of Merlin, it will reach 170 or more. Not much different from T23's 180-190 including flight.
Although it is as expected (I never believed it will be 120 or something), when has it grown?
The infographic on the previous page is dated 2019.
This MoD Infographic is dated June 2017 which also shows core crew as 157 so far from new.
Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]
Posted: 30 Jun 2021, 16:55
by RichardIC
Jdam wrote:On Phalanx, I take it the ships will be fitted for but not with them as I did not think we have enough to give every type 26 two of them
We won't need to give Type 26 two of them for a very long time. Of much greater concern is the lack of mention of the VLS or anything which may occupy them.
