Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Contains threads on Royal Navy equipment of the past, present and future.

Which Anti-Ship Missile Should be Selected for the Type 26?

Lockheed Martin LRASM
164
52%
Kongsberg NSM
78
25%
Boeing Harpoon Next Gen
44
14%
MBDA Exocet Blk III
21
7%
None (stick to guided ammo and FASGW from Helicopters)
8
3%
 
Total votes: 315

NickC
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by NickC »

tomuk wrote: 23 May 2022, 18:59 Can everybody calm down it is complete nonsense based on a bit of gossip from a union official who wouldn't know a deck plate if he tripped over it. Of course it would be nice, and cheaper, to build the T26 in a covered hall but hundreds of ships are built all over the world outside.
Think comment is uncalled for as the union officialfor for all we know might have been a welder in his earlier existance, and he's not online to defend himself. As said we all hope a very minor problem, as yet BAE and MoD have issued no rebuttal/explanation/consequences.

In the report Ian Waddell the union official talks a lot of sense especially on the FSS and the idiots at Treasury on their stop go stop go policy killing the shipbuilding industry, would note T26 programme looks to have slipped yet another year.

Defence Committee
Oral evidence: National Shipbuilding Strategy
Refresh, HC 181
Tuesday 17 May 2022
https://committees.parliament.uk/oralev ... 10235/pdf/

SD67
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by SD67 »

It doesn't get away from the basic problem - the ships are being built before they're fitted out. Scotsdoun or Govan - choose one. Please.

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by SD67 »

Personally looking at the transcript I thought the union rep talked alot of sense.

South Korea isn't Glasgow in Winter

zavve
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by zavve »

Nonetheless, a new build hall in Govan would be great. But only if BAE pays for it out of their pocket. With new competition from Rosyth, they need to keep the Type 26 on schedule. I still question why they put a PESA Artisan on a billion-pound Type 26 and putting AESA NS110 on Type 31. How much of a cost difference would it make to have Type 26 with SAMPSON, Exls and CAMM-ER? If that figure is under £50,000,000 I think it is worth the investment.

tomuk
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by tomuk »

NickC wrote: 24 May 2022, 09:54
tomuk wrote: 23 May 2022, 18:59 Can everybody calm down it is complete nonsense based on a bit of gossip from a union official who wouldn't know a deck plate if he tripped over it. Of course it would be nice, and cheaper, to build the T26 in a covered hall but hundreds of ships are built all over the world outside.
Think comment is uncalled for as the union officialfor for all we know might have been a welder in his earlier existance, and he's not online to defend himself.
As far as I am aware he's never been a welder, he has a BSc in Environmental Science and has been a professional union official for over 20 years.

He's been on a guided tour at Govan, seen some of the completely normal warpage in the steel plating during the welding and his tour guide has lamented that it would be better if only we had a covered dock hall/build hall.

Just to repeat again there is no issue with welding outdoors.

tomuk
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by tomuk »

SD67 wrote: 24 May 2022, 17:27 Personally looking at the transcript I thought the union rep talked alot of sense.

South Korea isn't Glasgow in Winter
And Glasgow isn't Turku, Finland in the winter either. Ships are welded outdoors all over the world with no issue.

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imperialman
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by imperialman »

Reposting this as a friend in industry has told me that the claim over welds has been misunderstood and not accurate, please disregard that.

I've been told BAE has submitted a planning application to drain the wet basin at their Govan shipyard in order to construct a covered build hall. It is hoped that Type 26 number 4 onwards will be built in this facility. Here's a rough animation showing how that will look.
ship1.gif
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Scimitar54
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Scimitar54 »

I note that this would (in theory at least) allow T83 to be built in the existing “Shed” and then on the Slipway at the same time as T26 are built in the new “Factory”. :lol:

SD67
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by SD67 »

imperialman wrote: 24 May 2022, 20:26 Reposting this as a friend in industry has told me that the claim over welds has been misunderstood and not accurate, please disregard that.

I've been told BAE has submitted a planning application to drain the wet basin at their Govan shipyard in order to construct a covered build hall. It is hoped that Type 26 number 4 onwards will be built in this facility. Here's a rough animation showing how that will look.

ship1.gif
That looks promising. Does mean there are now two Planning applications? I recall there was an earlier one related to extending the existing construction hall, which was held up by some historic wrought iron gates.

tomuk
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by tomuk »

SD67 wrote: 25 May 2022, 17:31

which was held up by some historic wrought iron gates.
A bit more than some wrought iron gates, it is the 'FORMER ENGINE WORKS OF FAIRFIELD SHIPBUILDING AND ENGINEERING COMPANY'
"The finest surviving engineering works in Scotland and

perhaps in Britan "(Hume, 1976, p24). It is probable

that no other similar building, employing an internal

cast-iron frame, exists on such a scale anywhere else in

the world. The cast-iron stanchions are a characteristic of

Scottish engineering works, but few have survived, and

those that do (such as Linthouse and the Caledonian

Ironworks) are less massive than here. Few heavy

engineering works elsewhere in the world can have been on

this scale and even fewer would have cast-iron as opposed

to timber, wrought-iron, brick or steel vertical

supports.

SD67
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by SD67 »

Wow - sounds like Battersea power station - perfect place for a billion pound inner city residential property redevelopment

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

SD67 wrote: 25 May 2022, 20:36 Wow - sounds like Battersea power station
Under the thread's header, the upside-down table more comes to mind
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by donald_of_tokyo »

Not new at all, but I reminded that T26's Artisan 3D radar is Artisan 300, improved version of the Artisan 3D on T23. (not sure about the difference, though)

"Based on the proven ARTISAN 3D radar with 20 systems in service. This latest version has high levels of range and accuracy and is currently in manufacture for the UK Royal Navy’s Type 26 frigate. "

https://www.baesystems.com/en-media/upl ... 893989.pdf

tomuk
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by tomuk »

Yes Artisan is now available as a range 100, 200, 300. Scalable across different sized platforms. In the brochures it says that the 100 and the 200 can be upgraded to 300 spec.
Can be easily upgraded to ARTISAN 300 through additional spares and software
upgrade
What are these spares? Extra rows of T/R modules?

Caribbean
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Caribbean »

A quick link to my earlier post on the new BAE radar range
viewtopic.php?p=132823&hilit=Artisan+100#p132823
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
Winston Churchill

donald_of_tokyo
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by donald_of_tokyo »

Caribbean wrote: 26 May 2022, 15:29 A quick link to my earlier post on the new BAE radar range
viewtopic.php?p=132823&hilit=Artisan+100#p132823
Thanks. The problem is, there is no comparable brochure of the current Artisan 3D, so not easy to be compared.... :D

Jdam
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Jdam »



Bobs been busy :thumbup:
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Caribbean »

donald_of_tokyo wrote: 26 May 2022, 15:39 there is no comparable brochure of the current Artisan 3D
True - they were very close-lipped about it's capabilities. The fact that they are now trialling BMD software on Artisan does seem to indicate that it is an extremely capable system in ways that may not be hardware limited
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by imperialman »

Here she is today, moments ago.
jo30kj.jpg
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Digger22
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Digger22 »

How's Bob getting on?

Scimitar54
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Scimitar54 »

Not ‘bobbin about on the Clyde yet, it would seem! :mrgreen:

matt00773
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by matt00773 »

zavve wrote: 24 May 2022, 19:46 Nonetheless, a new build hall in Govan would be great. But only if BAE pays for it out of their pocket. With new competition from Rosyth, they need to keep the Type 26 on schedule. I still question why they put a PESA Artisan on a billion-pound Type 26 and putting AESA NS110 on Type 31. How much of a cost difference would it make to have Type 26 with SAMPSON, Exls and CAMM-ER? If that figure is under £50,000,000 I think it is worth the investment.
The Artisan radar is most definitely AESA technology.
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by NickC »

matt00773 wrote: 01 Jul 2022, 10:55
zavve wrote: 24 May 2022, 19:46 Nonetheless, a new build hall in Govan would be great. But only if BAE pays for it out of their pocket. With new competition from Rosyth, they need to keep the Type 26 on schedule. I still question why they put a PESA Artisan on a billion-pound Type 26 and putting AESA NS110 on Type 31. How much of a cost difference would it make to have Type 26 with SAMPSON, Exls and CAMM-ER? If that figure is under £50,000,000 I think it is worth the investment.
The Artisan radar is most definitely AESA technology.
My understanding all the new Western AESA main naval radars use gallium nitride semiconductors, GaN, in their transmit/receive modules from the Thales NS110 for the T31 to the proposed MoD Lockheed Martin radar for UK BMD system.

GaN give approx five times the RF transmit output power as they are capable of withstanding much greater heat dissipation and operate over a larger waveband compared to the previous gen gallium arsenide, GaAs, used in the T/RMs of Artisan (the radar SNR of the TR module involves minimizing the noise figure of the receiver and maximizing the output power of the transmitter).
PS One consequence of GaN due to its high power is the much higher cooling capacity required.

A seven year old video of the French Thales Sea Fire 500 radar under development for the new FDI and a future variant for the land based BMD SAMP/T NG (New Generation) with the ASTER Block 1 NT.


zavve
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by zavve »

matt00773 wrote: 01 Jul 2022, 10:55
zavve wrote: 24 May 2022, 19:46 Nonetheless, a new build hall in Govan would be great. But only if BAE pays for it out of their pocket. With new competition from Rosyth, they need to keep the Type 26 on schedule. I still question why they put a PESA Artisan on a billion-pound Type 26 and putting AESA NS110 on Type 31. How much of a cost difference would it make to have Type 26 with SAMPSON, Exls and CAMM-ER? If that figure is under £50,000,000 I think it is worth the investment.
The Artisan radar is most definitely AESA technology.
Can anyone provide a source for ARTISAN being AESA?

tomuk
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by tomuk »

Well BAE have never confirmed what it is. But maybe as ASEA is so ubiquitous these days they don't have to.
If it isn't ASEA I'm not sure how there can now be three models of radar in the same family that you can upgrade between by adding modules.

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