Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Contains threads on Royal Navy equipment of the past, present and future.

Which Anti-Ship Missile Should be Selected for the Type 26?

Lockheed Martin LRASM
164
52%
Kongsberg NSM
78
25%
Boeing Harpoon Next Gen
44
14%
MBDA Exocet Blk III
21
7%
None (stick to guided ammo and FASGW from Helicopters)
8
3%
 
Total votes: 315

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RichardIC
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by RichardIC »

donald_of_tokyo wrote: 02 Aug 2022, 04:32

"Hunter class weight issues have now be largely resolved by small increase in beam"

Interesting. Can the RN Batch2 T26 be also the "broad beam version"? It will significantly contribute to increase the "margin" in the weight, internal volume, and top weight. As T26 is all-digital design, each and every modification of Hunter class design can be shared with Clyde shipyards. I understand the digital issue is, detailed even up to a single screw, and include the build and verification process.

This detailed information sharing was the essence of T26's design. When a small modification in design be adopted in the factory, it is immediately reflected into the ship digital design, and shared.

Also, on the beam broadening, we all know Leander class frigate has a Batch3 broad-beam variant. It worked well, to my understanding, if it is "small increase". Leander Batch3 had 2-feet (~60 cm) of broadening over the original 12.5m beam.
Two things here. Nowhere in that interview does Admiral Radakin mention an increase in beam. I'm no expert but I'd imagine any increase in beam is a really big deal from a design point of view.

But he does say the second batch of 5 ships is under contract, which I don't think it is. BAE Systems published their half year results last week and didn't mention it. Aware some long-lead items have been ordered.

donald_of_tokyo
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by donald_of_tokyo »

RichardIC wrote: 02 Aug 2022, 15:58 ...Two things here. Nowhere in that interview does Admiral Radikin mention an increase in beam. I'm no expert but I'd imagine any increase in beam is a really big deal from a design point of view.
Thanks. No he did not mention it in his interview. But, Navylookout pointed it out. Interesting to know the source.

On increasing the beam, if it is "small", it will not be a huge impact on design. Leander Batch3 told us so (JMSDF Takanami-class (17.4m beam) to Akizuki-class (18.3m beam) was also a modest upgrade, with basically similar hull design). But, it DOES require all re-design of minor issues. So it is a BIG effort, but not HUGE = it will cost, but not hugely cost. Just guess.

S M H
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by S M H »

The Leander increase in beam was from above the water line as it improved the sea state roll and pitching movement of the ship from testing on Hull forms at theTeddington tank. Actually beam increase would in effect mean a new Hull shape with a new testing requirement.

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Digger22 »

I thought an increase in Beam would reduce speed. An increase in length to beam ratio would increase speed, given the same propulsion.

SouthernOne
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by SouthernOne »

donald_of_tokyo wrote: 02 Aug 2022, 16:17
RichardIC wrote: 02 Aug 2022, 15:58 ...Two things here. Nowhere in that interview does Admiral Radikin mention an increase in beam. I'm no expert but I'd imagine any increase in beam is a really big deal from a design point of view.
Thanks. No he did not mention it in his interview. But, Navylookout pointed it out. Interesting to know the source.

I don't think the Hunter class has even been through the preliminary design review process, so talk of increases in beam seems premature. Earlier this year the system definition review was completed, which was a functional review.

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by donald_of_tokyo »

Digger22 wrote: 02 Aug 2022, 22:19 I thought an increase in Beam would reduce speed. An increase in length to beam ratio would increase speed, given the same propulsion.
Agree. But, MT30 is relatively "young" GT. And all GT evolves with improved power. And, anyway, it will all depend on how large the beam will be.

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by donald_of_tokyo »

SouthernOne wrote: 03 Aug 2022, 02:34 I don't think the Hunter class has even been through the preliminary design review process, so talk of increases in beam seems premature. Earlier this year the system definition review was completed, which was a functional review.
Not sure, as well. However, as you know, PDR will be done AFTER considering possible solutions, and already having detailed study of "how can T26 mitigate the top-weight issue" is just normal, I think. PDR is to decide something, not to discuss something.

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by donald_of_tokyo »

S M H wrote: 02 Aug 2022, 21:53 The Leander increase in beam was from above the water line...
No it isn't. Enjoy the photo of RNZN Batch3 Leander, Canturbery.

But, hull-shape verification will be surely needed. And, if Hunter class is adopting broad-beam, it means THEY will surely fully do it.

Image

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RichardIC
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by RichardIC »

The only source for the increased beam thing is a single Tweet from an unofficial source. And while I find Navy Lookout a reliable and informative source I’m still highly suss about this. We always been told that the T26 has an exquisitely designed hull form that’s as close to acoustic perfection as possible. So adding a bit to the beam sounds like a major redesign.

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by donald_of_tokyo »

RichardIC wrote: 04 Aug 2022, 15:32 The only source for the increased beam thing is a single Tweet from an unofficial source. And while I find Navy Lookout a reliable and informative source I’m still highly suss about this.
Agree.
We always been told that the T26 has an exquisitely designed hull form that’s as close to acoustic perfection as possible. So adding a bit to the beam sounds like a major redesign.
Not sure. If the beam broadening is 2-3% (or 40-50 cm of 20.4 m), I guess there will be no big difference (*1). In case of Leander B3, 60 cm increase to 12 m beam amounted to 5% increase.

*1 Even the sea-water density differs like 1.02-1.035 g/cc, i.e., 1.5%, depending on its temperature (and salt density).
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by donald_of_tokyo »

Great to see this model.

Importantly, the roof is so high that many of the "above" systems could be added in the hall. It will also be critical for T83 designing "freedom".


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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Dobbo »

Indeed - given the likely size of T83 will be in the 10-15k Displacement range that flex needs to be accounted for… a good step forward to getting a regular drumbeat of warships from govan.

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by imperialman »

Cardiff and her bridge.
RS62196_HMS CARDIFF-lpr.jpg
RS62193_HMS cardiff (3)-lpr.jpg
RS62194_HMS Cardiff bridge 2-lpr.jpg
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Jdam »

donald_of_tokyo wrote: 26 Aug 2022, 09:48 Great to see this model.

Importantly, the roof is so high that many of the "above" systems could be added in the hall. It will also be critical for T83 designing "freedom".

Would it not be better to have floor of the new building the same level as the Clyde with a Dock gate making it a dry dock? Or is it just not needed?

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by SW1 »

Amazing! apparently such a shed wasn’t needed until Babcock built one at Rosyth that is.

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by tomuk »

Jdam wrote: 26 Aug 2022, 22:15
Would it not be better to have floor of the new building the same level as the Clyde with a Dock gate making it a dry dock? Or is it just not needed?
Traditional thinking was to build a covered dry dock or even a covered slipway as at Cammell Laird or was at Scotsoun.

Current thinking says moving them about on Self-Propelled Modular Transporters SPMTs and then lowering them into the water on boat lifts or submersible barges is preferable saving on the maintenance and logistic issues of maintaining and working in a dock.
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by tomuk »

SW1 wrote: 26 Aug 2022, 22:29 Amazing! apparently such a shed wasn’t needed until Babcock built one at Rosyth that is.
BAE have been proposing to build a frigate factory at Govan and/or Scotstoun for ages.

I would put the change down to a change of view by the mandarins inside MOD\DSES
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by SW1 »

tomuk wrote: 26 Aug 2022, 23:29
SW1 wrote: 26 Aug 2022, 22:29 Amazing! apparently such a shed wasn’t needed until Babcock built one at Rosyth that is.
BAE have been proposing to build a frigate factory at Govan and/or Scotstoun for ages.

I would put the change down to a change of view by the mandarins inside MOD\DSES
Proposing provided someone else paid for it.

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Ron5 »

SW1 wrote: 27 Aug 2022, 08:40
tomuk wrote: 26 Aug 2022, 23:29
SW1 wrote: 26 Aug 2022, 22:29 Amazing! apparently such a shed wasn’t needed until Babcock built one at Rosyth that is.
BAE have been proposing to build a frigate factory at Govan and/or Scotstoun for ages.

I would put the change down to a change of view by the mandarins inside MOD\DSES
Proposing provided someone else paid for it.
Somebody else always pays for it for every company. Babcock financed their shed out of the T31 contract.
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Anthony58 »

SW1 wrote: 27 Aug 2022, 08:40
tomuk wrote: 26 Aug 2022, 23:29
SW1 wrote: 26 Aug 2022, 22:29 Amazing! apparently such a shed wasn’t needed until Babcock built one at Rosyth that is.
BAE have been proposing to build a frigate factory at Govan and/or Scotstoun for ages.

I would put the change down to a change of view by the mandarins inside MOD\DSES
Proposing provided someone else paid for it.

The MOD is BAE's only customer, for their Clyde yards.

bobp
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by bobp »

Good article here about the T26 construction with some new images.....

https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/news/207 ... ver-clyde/
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Bongodog »

bobp wrote: 29 Aug 2022, 13:58 Good article here about the T26 construction with some new images.....

https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/news/207 ... ver-clyde/
Good to see that they are only using medium calibre Gin !!

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by donald_of_tokyo »

"Australian Hunter class is with wider beam", new info. Not yet official, but for me APDR is a good source. So, I think it is true. VERY interesting.

In August last year an additional 18-month delay was agreed by all parties. This was caused by several events, most noticeably the global disruption of Covid. The factors directly related to the platform included the complexity of the Australian-specific changes – especially the radar and combat system that necessitated a slightly fatter hull of 0.6 of a metre – delays to the parent Type 26 program and a shipyard being developed. Nevertheless, work had already started as promised on the prototype sections.

See https://asiapacificdefencereporter.com/ ... celerated/
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by tomuk »

donald_of_tokyo wrote: 30 Aug 2022, 00:37 "Australian Hunter class is with wider beam", new info. Not yet official, but for me APDR is a good source. So, I think it is true. VERY interesting.
See https://asiapacificdefencereporter.com/ ... celerated/
A few more interesting tidbits from the article:
10,000 tonne anti-submarine warfare (ASW) ships will be acquired
What's that 2.5x bigger than a T23?
a prototype of the complex and distinctive aluminium mast is taking place at the BAE Systems facility in Henderson, WA
Why not composite like the T26 mast? If it was lighter no need for the 0.6m beam stretch?
Because of the quality and speed of the work now being performed at Osborn, the later ones [prototype blocks] designed for the Hunters will be good enough to be incorporated in them.
The new plan to recover lost time is to use the prototype blocks the yard were building to construct the first ship, the original plan was to dispose of them and start afresh.

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Post by Caribbean »

The thought drifts across my mind that, as this seems to have been accomplished fairly "easily" (I'm sure it wasn't as easy as they make it sound), the Hunter class design variant might yet become the basis for the T83, perhaps with a further bit of "fattening up" (i.e. beam and draft) and a bit of a stretch, pushing it into the > 10k < 12k tonne region
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
Winston Churchill

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